First time with DA, which chemicals should I get?

[marlinspike]

So my friend is letting me borrow his 6" Griot`s DA. I`ve never used a DA (or any machine). The car in question (a recent purchase by my gf) has a dark blue clear-coat metallic paint. It`s in pretty good condition, but it does have light swirl marks all over it. Also the trunklid, which was repainted just before she bought it, has machine swirls in it from a bad finishing job by the painter. I`ve done plenty of car care by hand, and always prefer the German products for whatever reason. Which things are recommended for use with the machine?

I already own 3M dark car swirl remover, but I`m happy to buy whatever is recommended (I plan to wax by hand, and pre-clean after washing using the P21S paintwork cleanser by hand).

[Ronkh]

If ya like the german stuff, stick with the german stuff.......

But you doing this in sun or garage? sun = poorboys, garage PB or blackfire, DP Pinnacle, Megs

[RaysWay]

Will you need to buy pads too? Does the Griots DA have the stock 6 inch backing plate? Or a 5 inch? You have a nice friend too btw :)

[GearHead_1]

I`ve found both BlackFire and Poorboys easy to use products. Emphasis on PoorBoys as an alomost across the board easy product.

[marlinspike]

He has the 6". He says I can use his pads (orange, white, red from Griot`s I`m told). I will be doing it outside, but it will be mostly/dappled shade and probably no hotter than 65F.


Will you need to buy pads too? Does the Griots DA have the stock 6 inch backing plate? Or a 5 inch? You have a nice friend too btw

Yes, very. He says he spent all that money and has only used it once, so somebody ought to use it lol.

[Accumulator]

marlinspike- The color of the paint doesn`t really matter, it`s all about its other characteristics.

The usual biggie is hardness- some clearcoats are very hard (challenging to do even minor correction) while others are soft (can be challenging to finish out). Most of the time, you can pretty much plan on the former, especially when new at this stuff. The polisher is really just a "fast hand that doesn`t get fatigued".

I`d aim for "much better" as opposed to "Autopian perfect" and I`d be *ALL* about the product being user-friendly.

(Note that I`ve never used PoorBoy`s products.)

IIRC, the Blackfire polishes are made by/variations of Menzerna. The one I`ve used is OK but not my first recommendation. I feel the same way about Meguiar`s offerings. No, I`m not slamming them but in this specific case I`d go with something else.

I used to recommend 1Z`s (Pro line) Hi Gloss, but these days I use/prefer/recommend 3D Polish. I`m 100% certain that you wouldn`t regret that choice.

I`d do a one-step with the 3D Polish and not try to do more. Get a feel for the whole process using only that. Then LSP it and call it "done". That`d be plenty for a day, or even a weekend.

[marlinspike]

If it tells you anything, it`s a 2005 BMW. No idea what kind of paint was used on the trunk, but the rest of it should have a decently thick and fairly hard clear based on my past experiences.

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, it wasn`t all that long ago that a common recommendation for 1st-time polishers was "use an All-In-One while you get a feel for it".

marlinspike- AFAIK the only problematic BMW paint is their Jet Black (never did figure out what the *basecoat* color seems to coincide with stupid-soft clear on those cars?!?).

Again, my big concern is that you not make the whole thing overwhelming in any way and to that end I`m recommending a, uhm...Accumulator-proof suggestion that won`t bite you. Seems like it always takes a lot longer than people expect. Though it may be too gentle to correct every flaw, the 3D Polish is just flat-out user-friendly. No concerns with "mastering the product", just:

-don`t use too much product
-keep cleaning the pads often or switch to a clean one, do both/either before you think you need to
-don`t overwork the product to where it dries out on the pad/paint
-don`t work too-large areas (I recommend smaller than the conventional wisdom "2` square" area)

There. Just those tips, and "pay attention to what you`re doing!", and some common sense (don`t run the polisher unless it`s against the paint lest you get polish sprayed everywhere ;) ) oughta do it for ya. I lent a polisher to a pal with *zero* experience or interest in this stuff (she`s a lady CPA whose husband wasn`t getting around to doing it..) and she did just fine on her Lexus. Maybe not Autopian-fine, but normal person-fine; she was quite satisfied, and proud of herself. The polish I gave her was another "really easy" product, and IMO that made all the diff.

[Accumulator]

marlinspike- FWIW, I`m not suggesting the 3M SMR because it basically just fills as opposed to really correcting.

[Stokdgs]

Great help from the guys above..

The only thing I can add is to be sure you know what color pad/s does what, and that they are all clean, and you know how to clean them if they are not..
See if your good friend has a pad cleaner to loan you or you can look up pad cleaner liquids here.

Since you are not asking about technique, etc., assume you already have a handle on that, right ?

Or ask us questions to things you dont know..

Good luck,
Dan F

[marlinspike]

Great help from the guys above..

The only thing I can add is to be sure you know what color pad/s does what, and that they are all clean, and you know how to clean them if they are not..
See if your good friend has a pad cleaner to loan you or you can look up pad cleaner liquids here.

Since you are not asking about technique, etc., assume you already have a handle on that, right ?

Or ask us questions to things you dont know..

Good luck,
Dan F

He does not have a pad cleaner. I guess this would be a good thing to buy Wolfgang Pad Werks Pad Cleaner & Extender Combo (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/pad-extender-combo.html#.VQOvKdKPjMo) ?
Also, is pad cleaning something you do mid-job? Are the Griots pads he has good, or should I buy some different pads myself?

On technique, I know nothing, but I was going to rely on his telling me and this video: https://youtu.be/fxwlWijdIxM Anything else I should look at regarding technique?

[Stokdgs]

Have never used Wolfgang pad werks, but have used this - Micro-Restore Microfiber Detergent Concentrate 32 oz. (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/micro-restore.html#.VQRnhY7F-So) with great success..

If you are getting the pads and some are still dirty, you need to soak them in the cleaner in hot water, knead them as they are soaking in the bucket to get all the residue out, rinse them really well, and set them out to dry..
They may take over 24 hours to dry..

Unless you have lots of each color of pad, you will need to clean them when they are full of dead paint and used compound or polish often and repeat the scenario I described above, along with letting them dry before using them again.

Never used Griot`s pads - they are not cost-effective in a Shop setting, and of course, I know nothing of their quality to do the work..

If its a Bimmer, I have years of experience with all their paint on hundreds of them...
As has already been stated above, their paint is medium hard to perhaps hard (except for Jet Black) but not impossible to correct with the right equipment..

Please study all you can and see if you can get this figured out..

If it was me and I just had that machine, I would run it full power as much as possible to get as much pad rotation out of it, so you can get the compound to break down and clean and polish the paintwork..

A smaller backing plate - 5" and appropriate pads would be much easier to handle and get you more pad rotation too..

But just try to do this with what you have and see how it goes...

It does not just by magic make the paint clear and glossy, ok ? Its going to take downward pressure, pad speed, technique, great products, pads, and towels to make this better than what you have..

Also know that there are a lot of bad ways to do it on the Internet, and you will have to hope you pick a good example to emulate..

Study what you are doing, keep focused on that one spot, and dont go past it until you have mastered as much as possible the process..

Good luck,
Dan F

[Accumulator]

marlinspike- I consider frequent and thorough pad cleaning to be utterly essential. I usually clean my pads, at least to some extent, after *every* section-pass, so that`s virtually countless times per panel. You *will NOT* overdo the cleaning no matter how often you do it, but it`s so easy to *under-clean* pad cleaning.

I haven`t used Griot`s pads since the recent redesign, but I`ve always liked the ones that I have used and I`ve used a *LOT* of them over the years. The ones that I`ve used are not aggressive enough for serious, significant correction. You oughta have more pads than you think you`ll need ;)

I usually run mine at top speed when doing correction, *maybe* turning it down a bit for the final finishing passes.

[MiVor]

Well first you need to wash and clay the car. Then you will likely need both compound and polish. You`ll use compound (w/orange pad) followed by polish (w/white pad) for really bad spots. For light swirls, polishing may be enough. I use a Porter Cable 7424 set on 5, so you may need to experiment with your DA. Be sure to watch some youtube videos for proper technique - good news is that a DA is pretty safe. I think Accumulator is correct - you want to shoot for better/very good, not necessarily show car finish - after all, it`s a street ride, not a garage queen show car.
Follow up with a good LSP. Here you`ll need to chose between a polymer or a wax which is just as hard as which Mfg of compound and polish!!! On previous rides I`ve used Optimum and Klasse and several others. I also like Duragloss products, but this time out I`m going with Meguiar products and wee what happens.

[marlinspike]

As it turns out, my friend had to move on 3 days notice to a different part of the country...so now I need to buy a DA kit. I know there are a ton of threads on this, but any particular recommendation based on the current sale that`s going on? As I understand it, if budget is a concern you are looking at the Griot`s and the Porter Cable, with it coming down to preference (though I understand the Griots has more power), but any recommendation as far as which kit provides the best bang for the buck and doesn`t wasn`t money on something I don`t need for now?