water spots and etching

[hawaiidude]

My wife has a 2008 rav4.` The paint is OK but has some pretty bad etching from water spots.


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my normal zaino process doesn`t do anything with the etching.` I need something more agressive.


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Here are the 3 products I`ve seen that might work but I will take any suggestions


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1. Merzerna si-1500


2. Merzerna IP-1000


3. HD Cut


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[Ron Ketcham]

Water spotting is one thing, etching is another.


What one may think is a "water spot" may actually be "etching"


Real, actual, water spots are nothing more than the minerals in the water or on the surface-exposed to not enough "flushing action" by rain, etc and are allowed to "dry" on the paint surface and those minerals "bond" to the porous paint film. Paint, be it a clear coat or a single stage, is very porous, not seen by the "naked eye", it looks to be solid, not so.


Any paint surface on a vehicle may absorb up to a pint or more of water into it. This water will evaporate under the exposure to heat that they are subjected to. Sun, heat gun, wind, etc.`


Any of the many acids present in the enviorment of which the vehicle is present, will liquify and and enter the paint film. That, combined with "heat" activates the acids and they eat apart the all important "film former/binder" of the paint. Once the binders are eaten at, they are toast.


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No clay bar or such will correct the damage.


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And, whatever acid based chemical that "ate into" the paint may only be removed from the substrate of the paint film, through the use of OEM (vehicle manufacturer) tested and approved by them. Not by some "gee this is simple and great, buy it" product that is marketed to the uninformed.


Only one system is capable of doing this. This system is private labeled for several manufactuers or required in their "dealer issued" Technical Service Bulletins", of which several may be read at ValuGard.net.


Once the "damaging acids" are neutralized and removed, then one may attempt to remove the damaged paint film.


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However, if is doing so, one removes more than .3 mil (3/10th of a mil), the all important UV blockers, which are concentrated in the top .5 (1/2 a mil) are removed, the finish has lost it`s true "density" and is very porus and not enough UV blockers are left to truly protect the total film build that is on a vehicle.


Clay bar, buffing, only removes the surface damage. It "does not" remove the actual acids that created the damage in the first place.


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It`s really basic chemistry, having to do with "heat and moisture" reactions of acids, moisture and heat.


Go back to your schooling of how these things work and it may become more clear.


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It`s all there, on that website, just up to each to make a decision to read and take some time to understand that it is not a "mass marketed, look at my pretty packaging" site or information.


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If one is serious about understanding what and why, I suggest they take the time to check it out.

[Dan]

The Zaino is likely making it worse too. Lots of Threads here about the issue. I`ve had a lot of waterspot issues and natural carnauba waxes seem to protect the best.

[Accumulator]

Well, I`d say that "waxes" work best, but I`d leave out the "natural carnauba" part; Collinite 476S`is, AFAIK, a hybrid and it works great in this regard.


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M16 is one of those "natural waxes" and it did *NOT* protect Accumulatorette`s A8 against bad water etching from Memphis` muni water.


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I`ve had good luck with FK1000P resisting such damage, and it never happened for me with (heavily layered) KSG either.

[hawaiidude]

Thanks guys.` The fact that zaino might increase the likelyhood of etching makes sense.` Water beads so well it just sits on your paint for an exteneded period of time.


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What I am asking advice for is a good polish to get out water spots and etching.` after reading I see that meguiars has some good compounds, HD cut or polish, or one of the merenzas.` Which is best to polish out paint damage?

[hawaiidude]

Here is my plan but I need help with the product to use for polishing


1. wash well


2. nanoscrub (replaces claybar)


3. Polish with __________?`


4. seal with Zaino.

[Accumulator]

hawaiidude- Note that Zaino has a reputation for being especially vulnerable to this; even other products that leave the beads sitting there can sometimes protect much better.


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The HD products are incredibly user-friendly, so they`d be a good choice.` How aggressive you have to get will depend on the severity of the problem and how far you want to go correcting it.` Eh, I`d say to get the HD Cut and the HD Polish and some suitable pads.


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And I`d rethink that step "4. Seal with Zaino", but that`s just me and I don`t mean to beat you over the head with my LSP preferences.

[hawaiidude]

Accumulator, thanks for the help.


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I ordered the Merzerna polishes but I think I`m going to cancel the order so I can get the HD porducts instead.` I`ve been reading about it and it looks pretty good.


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As for transitioning away from Zaino, I`m tempted.` It would be painful because I have so much of the product already purchased.


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What LSPs do you like?

[Dan]

One thing to try before polishes is vinegar. Get a towel or old tshirt and a garbage bag or other plastic. Soak the fabric, cover with plastic and let it sit for 30 minutes or so. Then wipe with a dry MF. It takes a few passes but it seems to work well on hard water deposits for me. Acid rain etching is a different animal.

[Junebug]

Vinagar or HD Eraser - HD worked great for me last summer. I had a guy`s 60K Shelby GT in the shop, had 3k miles on it and he washed it at the beach, and didn`t dry it before that hard water set in. Oh - dark blue color too. He had tried to "wax" it out and well, that didn`t turn out too good. I washed, clayed - hey, figured he needed it (and he did) and then worked the Eraser per directions. It worked! Then I did a light polish and sealed it with BFWD. I still remember that car, my wife and I would fight over who got to move it` - heh! nothing like a V-8!!


Oh and it had waterspots in the door jams, trunk jams too. The owner was very happy and gave a nice tip. Me? I tried to promote Eraser a little and got the "oh u b shillin dude" hey whatever, it worked for me then and on other cars too. I guess I`ll be giving Ben a call to order more.

[Accumulator]

You guys and your vinegar....I`d hit it with ValuGard`s "B" if I wanted to acid-treat it.


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hawaiidude-` These days I`m basically all about FK1000P for my LSP, though I have Collinite 476S on one car, M16 on another, and UPP (which I *do not* recommend) on my S8.` But the vehicles I use FK1000P on are basically worry-free in that bugs/water/etc. are no longer a real concern.` I parked my newer Crown Vic last August without even cleaning off the bug-splatter (I know, I know...) and when I finally washed it last weekend (expecting to find nasty etching) it was perfectly OK.

[Junebug]

You guys and your vinegar....I`d hit it with ValuGard`s "B" if I wanted to acid-treat it.


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Damn if I would, valuguard acid neutralizer is $20.70 plus shipping!

[hawaiidude]

Hey this is all good advice, thanks guys.` I already did the vinegar.` I took off all the water spots, I don`t think there`s much mineralization left.` Now what is left is pitting and etching in the clear coat.` So I believe what I need is a good cutting compound to carefully even out paint.


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I totally totally understand the argument against Zaino as I have had these issues.` Its just hard to swallow because I $300+ of product in my garage.` Haha FML.


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Ok I will think about all this...


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Whats the durability of FK1000P?` I can easily get away with 10-12 months with a good zaino session.

[hawaiidude]

Sorry one more question.` Whats the best way to apply the 1000p?` hand?` Can i use porter cable?` What are the best hand pads to use?` Microfiber pads or foam pads?


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Thanks

[Dan]

Fk1000 can last 4-6 months for me. No sealant beats Zaino water beading durability. 12 mos is not unheard of but it isn`t protection. For me Zaino was effective at protecting my paint for a couple of months and 3-4 washes. As long as I used the QD after each was I did ok but if I went too long without a wash or did a few washes without the QD, all my issues would start. If you love the Zaino look you can always top FK1000 after it cures with Z6 or Z8. You can apply FK1000 by machine or hand.

Regarding $300 worth of product, post it for sale on a corvette forum, it will be sold quickly.