Need to remove touch-up paint. Lacquer thinner, Langka Blob Eliminator, or?

[Jreepers]

The touch-up is about 3/4" long by 1/8" wide and has been dry for about 3-4 months now. I just tried some odorless mineral spirits and after 15 minutes the touch up still wasn`t coming off at all with a Q-tip.



After searching here it looks like the two most common things used are lacquer thinner and the Langka Blob Eliminator (LBE).



LBE is $25 shipped for 2oz., while lacquer thinner is about $5 local for 30oz. Is LBE that much safer / the lacquer thinner that much more dangerous? Does anyone know what ingredients are in it and if it`s just basically relabeled lacquer thinner?

[Jreepers]

By the way, I was about to go buy some lacquer thinner when I came across this post by Ron Ketchum: http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/141465-really-stubborn-old-tar-asphalt-specks.html#post1504070



So that being the case, if LBE actually works on touch-up that`s been dry this long, I`d prefer it... so long as it isn`t also lacquer thinner.

[Ron Ketcham]

Just use lacquer thinner if it is small area to be removed. Use a Q-tip, wet only the area you wish to remove. DO NOT WIPE IT OVER THE SURROUNDING AREA IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. (saturating of modern clears with lacquer thinner will often produce "crazing" of the clear where it may have been allowed to penetrate. Not usually visable for some time, may take a year to show up)

Allow the thinner to soften the paint, then with a new Q-tip rewet and carefully wipe out, changing Q-tips as needed.

When most is removed, what are you going to do once you have removed it.

All "mass marketed" touch up paints are lacquer so if a little is left behind, it should not negatively affect the new touch up.

[Jreepers]

Thanks Ron. Once it`s gone I am just going to let it go and won`t be putting on more touch-up paint. It was put there by the dealership, they put touch-up where I didn`t ask it to be put (a defect from the factory where the clearcoat (I guess) in a very small area almost had a melted/crinkled seran-wrap look to it if you got close) and to top it all off they used the wrong color and didn`t even bother smoothing it out, etc...

[Accumulator]

Jreepers- If using the lacquer thinner gives you the willies, the LBE *does* work fine for this IME, used it to take off old touchup paint that had probably been on there for years. Zero effect on the surrounding paint IME.

[Ron Ketcham]

I have spent about a half an hour trying to chase down a MSDS for the LBE.

Can`t seem to find a link to the actual company or a source for the MSDS.

Any body got a MSDS for it or a link that I can go to?

[Ron Ketcham]

Finally got into their website. It is very slow on loading and have yet to find a link to MSDS`s for products. Normally, a company with a following such as they have will provide an easy link to the products MSDS`s.

Guess I will contact them and ask for them to email some of the products MSDS`s, as I don`t touch any solvent until I read and understand the MSDS for the product.

[Jreepers]

Jreepers- If using the lacquer thinner gives you the willies, the LBE *does* work fine for this IME, used it to take off old touchup paint that had probably been on there for years. Zero effect on the surrounding paint IME.



Thanks! Any particular microfiber you recommend for the job or do you think any should work? I`ve got some detailing / wax removing MFs with I don`t know, I guess you`d say medium nap; wondering if they`ll work okay.

[Jreepers]

Ron, I sent them an e-mail, asking if it contains "lacquer thinner, MEK, xylene, acetone, or clorinated solvents" and they responded not long after with "I know it does not contain any of the items you listed."



Accumulator, the reason the LThinner gives me the willies is Ron`s info that it will dull the clear coat. I assume you`ve not experienced this with LBE?

[Ron Ketcham]

I got an automated reply a few minutes ago, and the way I worded the request they must respond in a few days with the MSDS as federal law requires that they do so per OSHA, and work place safety.

If no MSDS is sent to me, they can be in "big trouble".

I have only been working with automotive paints and other coatings for since I was 7 years old, which makes it 62 years of doing so.

The product has to contain some "hydrocarbon solvents" in a system which, by my years of experince, would have to contain at least one of the ones they say are not there.

It`s going to get very interesting over the next couple of weeks.

[Jreepers]

And, if it did contain some hydrocarbon solvents, would you recommend against it for the same reasons you recommend against the lacquer thinner?



Kind of in between a rock and a hard place. If I don`t use the LBE I`d have to take it to a detailer to, I imagine, get the touch-up sanded off, which kind of scares me.

[Ron Ketcham]

Leave it alone until I can get a legal MSDS to look over.

I have an idea of what they are using, but need to look at the specs for some things that will tell me a lot more that are on the later part of the MSDS.

[Accumulator]

Jreepers- Whatever MF you used will get trashed because it`ll have "solvented-off paint" on it, so don`t use your best one ;) I didn`t use an extra-plush one but yeah, you do want some nap for this (different from when you`re using it to merely level an OK touchup).



No, I`ve never had it do any dulling or other damage. I never had any problems from lacquer thinner either, but after a painter pal of mine said he messed up a panel (that turned out to be repainted) with it I quit taking chances. I have used the LBE on a touchup *on a repainted panel* and I was lucky in that the solvent acted on the touchup before it acted on the repaint. Generally, using it on a repainted panel might just be asking for trouble...

[Ron Ketcham]

OK, since I have been retired for getting close to 5 years and my source books are a bit out dated, I sent the MSDS from Langka I received today, to Tim Brune at AI.

When I got the MSDS, the first thing I noticed was the date on it. 2001.

Then, read it carefully and they are very careful about not devulging any thing as of 2001 regarding the solvents, only that it is a "properitory" blend and such. However, even back then they had to state if the blend contains any hazadous components, which they do admit to.

These could be any clorinated, etc solvents.

They do show that they add a "fragrance" to the blend to provide a "cherry" fragrance.

According to Tim, the MSDS is invalid, it is not to OSHA required standards, etc.

The "flash point" of the blended solvents is 115F, which suggest the use of MEK, etc.

MEK is the "active" in lacquer thinner by the way.

They "may" have some acetone, some diacetonealcohol in it as well, plus some water to reduce the activity of the "solvent blend".

Which makes sense, but why would a company that has been marketing a product as "totally safe", etc, to a consumer and professional market, not keep their MSDS`s up to date?

The "plot thickens" on this fellow Autopian`s.

As this unfolds, I will attempt to keep you all up to date.

[Ron Ketcham]

With the information I have been able to gather at this point, never use any synthethic cloth with the product as it will "melt" the threads/fabric of the towel.

It appears to me that the solvent blend would cause such as micro fibers to suffer this "melting or break down" of the fabric.

I never use any synthetic towels when using any solvent that is other than water, only total cotton based fabrics.

Someone may get away with it, but one thing to consider when offering advice, most do not read the MSDS or even know what they are and then "what solvents are what solvents" and how they may affect negatively many surfaces, towels, etc.