suggestions on getting off all these rust particles?

[vdog0531]

This is a work truck at a steel yard. I was just visiting at the time so i grabbed a mothers clay bar and took a whirl at this one section to see what it would take. This one little section took about 10 minutes with a clay bar and totally used up a third of the bar. Any suggestions on what clay bar would be best on this? Or a product i could use in conjunction with a clay bar to get all this off? The hood and roof are obviously the worst but the sides have some as well. HELP! :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/vdog0531/mountainstaterust.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/vdog0531/media/mountainstaterust.jpg.html)

[Nth Degree]

I had a similar situation a while back with a roofing company truck. It wasn`t quite that bad and I was able to clay it but it was a lot of work. Try IronX. It isn`t cheap and it might take a few applications so make sure to get enough. It will save you a lot of time and energy.

[Ron Ketcham]

Valugard.net

Go to training video`s, ABC neutralization training video.

[vdog0531]

Valugard.net

Go to training video`s, ABC neutralization training video.



Have you used this system or seen it work in person? I would definitely buy it, as long as i know that it will help my above situation. It`s just hard to believe that washing this truck a few times with this system is going to get rid of all that metal dust, especially after i saw how long it took the clay to do that little section. Again, i am not being argumentative or anything like that, just want to hear real life experiences that this system is capable of fixing my above pictured issue.

[brownbob06]

I would jump at the opportunity to detail a vehicle like that. DRAMATIC before and after pics. Definitely wouldn`t waste time trying to clay the whole thing though.

[vdog0531]

I would jump at the opportunity to detail a vehicle like that. DRAMATIC before and after pics. Definitely wouldn`t waste time trying to clay the whole thing though.



yes, i want to do it, for sure. What would you suggest, since you think clay is out of the picture

[Ron Ketcham]

I suggest that if you have doubts, don`t go on what I say.

Look in the "engineers" section on the drop down for the Technican Service Bulletins issued to new car dealers by several vehicle manufactuers.

Ford, Mazda, Hyundia, etc.

They have been issuing such for years, as it is safe, not "fast", but works and does not create problems with the paint a few months down the road.

As bad as your`s is, (have done more than a few that bad, personally), it will take a couple of times with the second step and the special VG-IS pad, maybe three times, but it will take it off.

And, yeah, I am the guy that developed the Finish Kare 1119/883 system years ago and the ValuGard system after I quit Finish Kare and moved to Automotive International.

The Finish Kare system was OK at it`s time, but with new VOC, ground water, etc regulations, it became out dated and could result in some heavy fines from the EPA for it`s use by port ops, dealers, etc.that used it without putting the FK system down a three stage clarifier.

[brownbob06]

yes, i want to do it, for sure. What would you suggest, since you think clay is out of the picture



Clay would be out of the picture for me for a couple reasons. 1: not cost effective since it willbe shot after a tiny section like you just did. 2: I don`t care whaat anybody says about clay, in conditions that rough you are bound to get a crapload of scratching fromm the clay becoming simply oversaturated and eventually turning into sandpaper basically.



I`ve never dealt with anything this bad and my honest recommendation would be to listen to Ron. He`s VERY reputable here and I can honestly say I`ve never seen him steer anybody in the wrong direction. Thhere are a couple people on here that I would take suggestions from very seriously and without hhesitation and Ron is one of tthose people.



(Sorry for the crappy grammar and typos, bback to mmy old Ally for a while till. I pick up a new phhone :/)

[imported_PiPUK]

Given the vehicle is an industrial vehicle I would be tempted to go down the more aggressive route - oxalic acid based product. Whilst I know that Valuguard makes claims about the hazards of this, it is recommended by several of the larger vehicle manufacturers for the removal of fallout. As long as you ensure to thoroughly clean the vehicle with an alkaline detergent (standard truck wash should do the job), the risk will be minimal.



Unfortunately I cannot recommend any products to you since none of those I know would be available in the US. Based on the products I know, you should be looking at something in the region of $30-40 per gallon through a retail outlet.

[vdog0531]

I suggest that if you have doubts, don`t go on what I say.

Look in the "engineers" section on the drop down for the Technican Service Bulletins issued to new car dealers by several vehicle manufactuers.

Ford, Mazda, Hyundia, etc.

They have been issuing such for years, as it is safe, not "fast", but works and does not create problems with the paint a few months down the road.

As bad as your`s is, (have done more than a few that bad, personally), it will take a couple of times with the second step and the special VG-IS pad, maybe three times, but it will take it off.

And, yeah, I am the guy that developed the Finish Kare 1119/883 system years ago and the ValuGard system after I quit Finish Kare and moved to Automotive International.

The Finish Kare system was OK at it`s time, but with new VOC, ground water, etc regulations, it became out dated and could result in some heavy fines from the EPA for it`s use by port ops, dealers, etc.that used it without putting the FK system down a three stage clarifier.



I have no problem taking your word for it, just wanted to see if you`ve used it on something as bad as what i have to tackle. Thank you for your help. I have since ordered the system and will be doing the truck in two weeks. Any idea how much time i should allot for this stage? You said it`s not fast, which is fine, just wondering about how long i should expect. 2 hrs? 4 hrs? 1 hr?

[Ron Ketcham]

As you are aware, you have years of build up of the ferrous particles.

The B or second stage is going to have to be repeated a few times. no need to go to the C or third and final step until you have the ferrous build up removed. Just allow B to dwell/set for the alotted time,(see more info at the end of this post) agitating with the VG-IS pad.(you may wear it out on this job), when the B has been on for 10 minutes or so, rinse off with plain water, wipe the excess rinse water off and re-apply the B, working it with the pad.

This is going to be your longest and most labor intentsive part of the job.

I am sure that once you have removed the ferrous, due to the amount and size of the rust blooms, there will be marring and a good polish job will be needed.

So, follow the main instructions, keeping in mind that you will need to "modify" the dwell and number of applications of the B part, repeating it a few times to desolve and lift the ferrous out of the paint.

Do not fail to do a final wash with the C-Detailing Wash, as it is necessary to neutralize the B that is down in the paint pores.

Can`t give you an exact time for this. I did a car for GM down in Mexico a few years back that had set outside, no washing, nothing, for three years, next to a steel recycling plant south of Monterey. It was like yours, white but looked like a tan/brown.

It took me a bit over two hours and was a real toughy, as this is not a normal condition for vehicles.

Just don`t rush, and since you will be allowing more product on and in the paint, do not do on a hot surface or in direct sun as it will heat up the paint/metal and may create too much reactivity of the B.

Also, don`t be afraid to "up the dwell time" of the B, just keep it wet, not allowing to dry on the surface. You should be able to go up to 12 to 13 minutes of dwell time per application of the B.

[vdog0531]

As you are aware, you have years of build up of the ferrous particles.

The B or second stage is going to have to be repeated a few times. no need to go to the C or third and final step until you have the ferrous build up removed. Just allow B to dwell/set for the alotted time,(see more info at the end of this post) agitating with the VG-IS pad.(you may wear it out on this job), when the B has been on for 10 minutes or so, rinse off with plain water, wipe the excess rinse water off and re-apply the B, working it with the pad.

This is going to be your longest and most labor intentsive part of the job.

I am sure that once you have removed the ferrous, due to the amount and size of the rust blooms, there will be marring and a good polish job will be needed.

So, follow the main instructions, keeping in mind that you will need to "modify" the dwell and number of applications of the B part, repeating it a few times to desolve and lift the ferrous out of the paint.

Do not fail to do a final wash with the C-Detailing Wash, as it is necessary to neutralize the B that is down in the paint pores.

Can`t give you an exact time for this. I did a car for GM down in Mexico a few years back that had set outside, no washing, nothing, for three years, next to a steel recycling plant south of Monterey. It was like yours, white but looked like a tan/brown.

It took me a bit over two hours and was a real toughy, as this is not a normal condition for vehicles.

Just don`t rush, and since you will be allowing more product on and in the paint, do not do on a hot surface or in direct sun as it will heat up the paint/metal and may create too much reactivity of the B.

Also, don`t be afraid to "up the dwell time" of the B, just keep it wet, not allowing to dry on the surface. You should be able to go up to 12 to 13 minutes of dwell time per application of the B.



sounds good, thanks for the help!

[Ron Ketcham]

Just hope the truck will not always be in that enviorment, as it will continue to receive the ferrous particles.

If so, and being aware of what that is, you will have to ABC every three months or so.

Despite all the "marketing" claims, there is no coating that will not accept the metal on to and into the finish.

It`s just basic chemistry, involving the acids the metal generate, heat and moisture.

[imported_PiPUK]

If it is in that environment, you simply need look beyond automotive for a cleaning product. Again, cannot give you a product name due to difference in the market but our trainwash is specifically designed to minimise the build up of iron particles. Most wash products for automotive are alkaline and will be fairly limited in efficiency here, in this application you need a mild acid product.