Seeking input on saving my car`s finish

[eljay]

I hope it`s OK to start 2 separate threads as I believe these cars will need completely different work process.



This car is a 2000 VW Golf with Uni Black paint. Besides my one attempt at a detailing session a year ago with clay/polish/wax applied by hand, I don`t believe this car has seen much paint care over the years. There are many swirl marks in the clearcoat and the typical wear areas (around door handles, top of the rear bumper) are much worse than the rest of the car, plus the car has a couple of small rust bubbles. This is my daily driver and I don`t plan to enter any restoration competitions with it. :) I just want to clean the paint and protect it from further damage.



I plan to buy a PC 7424XP with 5.5" pads and this is the car I would like to learn on, before attempting to detail my M3 (http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/144784-seeking-input-my-detailing-plan.html#post1539802). I found that I have some leftover Mothers products that are quite old (8+ years?). This is their 3-step system (pre-wax cleaner, swirl remover, carnauba wax). They always sat in a heated garage. I would like to avoid buying new products if I can re-use these especially on my Golf. But if they are junk due to age or quality, I`ll toss them. Are they still safe to use?



Here`s my plan for the Golf:

1. Wash & dry the whole car

2. Fix the small rust spots by sanding down the rust chips using a sandpen

3. Clean area with alcohol

4. Apply touch-up paint

5. Once the paint dries, sand down any protruding paint with 2000 grit sandpaper



Once I have corrected all the rust spots and filled in any other rock chips:

6. Wash & dry the whole car

7. Clay bar the entire car

8. Use swirl/scratch remover on the heavy scratch areas (Meguiar`s Scratch Remover?)

9. PC with orange pad and a cutting product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound?)

10. PC with white polishing pad and polishing product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Polish?)

11. PC with blue finishing pad and Collinite 845 Insulator wax



Would this process give the desired outcome? Do I need to get 2 different types of compounds due to some areas being more swirled than others or just pass through them multiple times?

Also, please comment on the products to use. I listed the above since they are available to me locally and are reasonably priced.



Thank you very much!!



Disclaimer: this is my first attempt at detailing with a DA polisher and anything other than consumer hand products.

[togwt]

Without photographs of the paint condition (preferably with a real camera not a mobile phone) taken with adequate lighting, any suggestions made can only be a ‘best guess’.



We’d be glad to help you with your detailing problem, but a little more input is required.



Questions:-



1. What is its condition? (Excellent- Moderate – Poor)

2. Where is the car parked regularly? (Outside 24/7 or garaged)

3. What are your goals for the vehicle? (daily driver/show car/ week-end ride)

4. What is your detailing experience level? (neophyte, experienced)

5. What is your wash routine?

6. Do you own a machine polisher / pads?

7. How much time are you willing to invest in maintenance afterward?

[pwaug]

You might want to take a look at the Griots Garage DA as it has much more power than the PC and has a lifetime warranty or the HD Polisher kit for $99 which still has more power than the PC. Also, consider HD Cut, HD Polish and HD Speed--very user/beginner friendly -- long working time, no dust, easy to remove. Get at least 4 pads per step ie 4 orange or yellow, 4 white of green etc so you don`t overheat the pads and so you don`t have to stop working to wash and dry pads.

[Accumulator]

I hope it`s OK to start 2 separate threads as I believe these cars will need completely different work process...



Sure, easier for people to respond to your Qs that way too.




This car is a 2000 VW Golf with Uni Black paint.. This is my daily driver and I don`t plan to enter any restoration competitions with it. :) I just want to clean the paint and protect it from further damage.



Glad you`re being realistic here :xyxthumbs








I plan to buy a PC 7424XP with 5.5" pads and this is the car I would like to learn on..



I`d rather see you buy a Griot`s Garage 6" Random Orbital. If the (hollow!) shaft of the PC shears/fractures the way it did for my pal Barry Theal you could have a terrible "oops!" that will make the repaint an immediate necessity.




I found that I have some leftover Mothers products that are quite old (8+ years?). This is their 3-step system (pre-wax cleaner, swirl remover, carnauba wax). They always sat in a heated garage. I would like to avoid buying new products if I can re-use these especially on my Golf. But if they are junk due to age or quality, I`ll toss them. Are they still safe to use?

Probably safe but that Deep Crystal system is something I do indeed consider too [crappy] to be worth using. Save the Step#2 Polish for use on still-curing repaints, but get something else/better to use now. Seriously, it`ll be money *very* well-spent.




Here`s my plan for the Golf:

1. Wash & dry the whole car

2. Fix the small rust spots by sanding down the rust chips using a sandpen

3. Clean area with alcohol

4. Apply touch-up paint

5. Once the paint dries, sand down any protruding paint with 2000 grit sandpaper



Plan to use a Rust Converter and/or a "paint over rust" product on the surface rust. I`d grind the spots with a tiny diamond burr on a Dremel if you have that tool.



For the "paint over rust" stuff, I`d get Rust Encapsulator from Eastwood or Rust Seal from KBS (google up those two companies, their stuff is *GOOD* and I like it better than the competition).



It`s really important to do those spots properly, and the "rust pen" (which I do use/like/recommend) won`t do a satisfactory/thorough job by itself. Heh heh, at least not like the ad-copy would have you expect ;)



Unless you`ve sanded before, be aware that the leveling can be much trickier than people expect; it`s not uncommon for people to trash the surrounding paint and otherwise open a terrible can-o`-worms.



I`d either live with the touchup blobs, or level them chemically with Langka`s Blob Eliminator, or use touchup paint from DR Colorchips (which is also leveled chemically using their solvent).



Not slamming wetsanding, I do it OK. But I`m serious about how it can really bite ya.








Once I have corrected all the rust spots and filled in any other rock chips:

6. Wash & dry the whole car

7. Clay bar the entire car

8. Use swirl/scratch remover on the heavy scratch areas (Meguiar`s Scratch Remover?)

9. PC with orange pad and a cutting product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound?)

10. PC with white polishing pad and polishing product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Polish?)

11. PC with blue finishing pad and Collinite 845 Insulator wax



Skip step #8.



Use a Meguiar`s MicroFiber Cutting Disk for step #9 instead of the orange foam pad. The UC is OK but soem of their more aggressive products might be better choices (M105, M101).



The step #10 stuff can get tricky, gotta remove the hazing from step #9 and final polish to a nice finish. I`d much rather see you use HD Polish as opposed to the Meguiar`s stuff for that step.



The 845 is fine, and on a finishing pad it`ll go fine by machine.



Would this process give the desired outcome? Do I need to get 2 different types of compounds due to some areas being more swirled than others or just pass through them multiple times?

Also, please comment on the products to use. I listed the above since they are available to me locally and are reasonably priced.



Find a representative "test spot area" and work through all the steps on that one spot to see how it goes. Be sure to inspect under *GOOD* lighting. Don`t try to do a whole panel (much less the whole car) until you get your approach all dialed-in on that test spot.

[Dan]

4. Apply touch-up paint

5. Once the paint dries, sand down any protruding paint with 2000 grit sandpaper



6. Wash & dry the whole car

7. Clay bar the entire car

8. Use swirl/scratch remover on the heavy scratch areas (Meguiar`s Scratch Remover?)

9. PC with orange pad and a cutting product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Compound?)

10. PC with white polishing pad and polishing product (Meguiar`s Ultimate Polish?)

11. PC with blue finishing pad and Collinite 845 Insulator wax





4. Don`t forget to use a rust converter and primer before using the actual paint, Consider using the Dr. Colorchip smearing technique.

5. This is where most newbies really screw up, sanding restraint is hard, just when you think you have it almost perfect, you`ll want to go that extra mile...DON`T. If it looks good to almost perfect, LEAVE IT BE.

6. Waste of time unless the car gets dirty.

8. Step 9 is more aggressive than Scratch remover, so skip this.



Most importantly, I don`t see anything about do a test area, that is the most important thing before commiting to do the whole car.

[eljay]

Thank you very much for all the responses!



Rust chips:

I will have to look into that Dr Colorchip system. It does sound like it will make things easier for me on both of my cars. I previously used POR-15, followed by their primer and then factory spray paint. Obviously, this much smaller area will require a more precise application. Does Dr Colorchip kit work well on its own with just sanding out the rust with a finepoint sanding pen?



Polisher:

The HD Polisher kit is very attractively priced if you`re in the U.S. I`m in Canada, and shipping for that kit costs $60. :( The PC kit from eShine is 185 and I can add other items with no additional shipping charges. I may still consider it, but if I get used to the HD stuff, it would be hard for me to re-fill the products at a reasonable cost. And we have no Harbour Freight around either. You guys get all the stuff so cheaply! :)



Products:

If I do decide to get the HD kit, should I get HD Cut, HD Polish and then seal with 845?

I know I won`t get top results, but would the Meguiar`s consumer line (UC+UP) be good enough?



Also, can I assume that any of the above products can be successfully used by hand for small areas that cannot be covered well with a polisher?



I need to wash the Golf and post some pics of the scratches as judging by the responses, compounding may be sufficient to resolve almost all the issues.



Thanks again! I appreciate this.

[Accumulator]

..Consider using the Dr. Colorchip smearing technique...



I, OTOH, do best with DR Colorchip when I use it pretty much like "regular" touchup paint, so smearing. But then I`m not doing huge areas with zillions of chips either.




.. sanding restraint is hard, just when you think you have it almost perfect, you`ll want to go that extra mile...DON`T. If it looks good to almost perfect, LEAVE IT BE...



!!EXCELLENT ADVICE!! And I feel the same way about chemical leveling too. Know when to say "when", that point is sooner than you`d think.




Rust chips:

I will have to look into that Dr Colorchip system. It does sound like it will make things easier for me on both of my cars. I previously used POR-15, followed by their primer and then factory spray paint. Obviously, this much smaller area will require a more precise application. Does Dr Colorchip kit work well on its own with just sanding out the rust with a finepoint sanding pen?



No, you still need to use a rust converter or something in the paint-over-rust category. FWIW, I *greatly* prefer those other brands over POR-15 (which I`ve used extensively enough to have dialed-in).




If I do decide to get the HD kit, should I get HD Cut, HD Polish and then seal with 845?

I know I won`t get top results, but would the Meguiar`s consumer line (UC+UP) be good enough?



I`d absolutely get the HD products instead. The Meg`s stuff was great when it came out, a real step forward, but it`s just not user-friendly enough IMO.



And OK, I understand why the PC is gonna be a better choice for you.



And yeah, just use the same stuff to do the tight areas by hand (and expect it to take a while ;) ).

[eljay]

OK, I`m starting to put together a shopping list.



If I go with eShine.ca:

Griot`s Garage 6-in DA Polisher (http://www.eshine.ca/griots_garage_6_random_orbital_polisher_10ft_cord-4100.php?cat=28) - $139.99

Lake Country 5.5" Flat DA Pad Starter kit (Orange/White/Black) w/backing plate (http://www.eshine.ca/lake_country_customizable_55_flat_da_pad_starter_k it_wbacking_plate-1241.php?cat=27) - $43.15

Additional pads:

Lake Country 5.5" Flat DA Pad Starter kit (http://www.eshine.ca/lake_country_customizable_55_flat_da_pad_starter_k it-1242.php?cat=27) - $25.62 x 3 = $76.86



Compound:

Meguiar`s #105 (http://www.eshine.ca/meguiars_105_ultra_cut_compound_8oz-1404.php?cat=70) - $11.00



Polish:

Not sure what to get as eShine only has the Meguiar`s 205 in 32oz, which is more than I`d like to stock at this point.



Wax:

Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax (No. 845) (http://www.eshine.ca/collinite_liquid_insulator_wax_no_845-1002.php?cat=71) - $16.82





So, my total for the above without a polish product would be:

SUBTOTAL: $287.82

TAX (15%): $43.17

Shipping: FREE

TOTAL: $330.99



Now, adding this all up does give me quite the sticker shock. :(



If I go with the 3D HD product line, it would look like this:

HD Polisher Kit (http://www.3dproducts.com/HD-Polisher-Kit.html) - $99.99

Includes HD Speed (16oz)



Pads:

5.5" Foam Pad Cutting Orange (http://www.3dproducts.com/5.5-Foam-Pad-Cutting-Orange.html) - $7.99 x 3 = $23.97

5.5" Foam Pad Polishing Blue (http://www.3dproducts.com/5.5-Foam-Pad-Polishing-Blue.html) - $7.99 x 3 = $23.97

5.5" Foam Pad Finishing Black (http://www.3dproducts.com/Foam-Pad-Finishing-Black.html) - $7.99 x 3 = $23.97



Compound:

HD Cut (http://www.3dproducts.com/HD-Cut.html) - $19.99



Polish:

HD Polish (http://www.3dproducts.com/HD-Advanced-Polish.html) - $19.99



Wax:

HD Poxy (http://www.3dproducts.com/HD-Poxy.html) - $14.99

-------

SUBTOTAL: $226.87

TAX (15%): $34.03

SHIPPING: $72.35

TOTAL: $333.25



I would still need to add some supplies and ONR:

Optimum No Rinse (http://www.eshine.ca/optimum_no_rinse_wash__shine_32oz-1609.php) - $16.99

[url=http://www.eshine.ca/the_el_cheapo_microfiber_towels_set_of_12_save_35-452-12.php?cat=27]The El Cheapo Microfiber Towels, (Set of 12!)[url] - $22.23



And then to take care of chips, Dr. Colourchip. Geez, this stuff adds up.



Are these the best kits I can put together or is there another option to save me some cost? Keep in mind that I`m in Canada, so, I have no access to the $60 DA polisher from Harbour Freight etc.



Thank you!

[Accumulator]

eljay- You oughta do fine with either setup, but I`d sure rather see you get the HD Polish as opposed to M205.

[eljay]

Is there something in eShine`s catalogue that you`d recommend for me for compound and polish before topping off with 845?

I think it would be easier for me to order from eShine and also get support if something goes wrong with the polisher.

The HD package is a great deal if one doesn`t have to pay for cross-border shipping.

With eShine, any item I add, would ship free, anything additional item from 3D would increase the shipping cost.

[Accumulator]

eljay- The M105 oughta be OK for the compound.



I`m not all that current with the particulars of their product line, but maybe something from Menzerna to replace the M205.



I do like 1Z High Gloss, but I don`t see it on their list of 1z products.



Eh, sorry I`m not being of more help here....