`02 Honda Accord, advice needed...

[Dellinger]

Greetings ladies and gents...



I`ll try to be short and to the point-



Vehicle:

2002 Honda Accord, black (unsure of color name, look like it has a bit of dark, dark blue flake in stock paint in certain light) 146,000 miles. Purchased vehicle in `06 used w/ 62K. Wife`s car, daily driver She`s hard on it in every aspect (interior, exterior, brakes, you get it...)



Environment: Live in Vancouver, WA. Rain for 8+ months out of the year. Some snow/sleet/ice and usually encounter de-icer/ salt on roadways 10+ times a year. Temps in Winter are usually high 20`s- low 50`s. Summer is very dry and can be dusty, mid 50`s lows- 95 highs.



Paint condition:

Hazing, marring, deep scratches, swirls present. Needs full correction. In the time we have owned the car, I`ve never had any sort of wheel on the car.



My experience level: Scarce. I have used a rotary on my truck and another vehicle but never on black paint. The rotary I have is an older Makita (1998, not sure of model #). I understand the rotary could possible make the task `faster` but I`ve got time. However, I`m looking into the HF DA for use since I`m not THAT confident in my rotary skills. After reading here there`s a lot of things I DIDN`T do well. Mind you, I didn`t burn or necessarily ruin any paint I`ve been on but I`m sure the clarity isn`t what it should have been either.



Plan:

I stopped by my local paint supply and they recommended System 51 Pro Cut with a Meguiar`s polishing pad (yellow). After reading here for a few weeks, I haven`t seen much if any mentioned about this System 51 stuff. My idea is to start with HD Uno and work with it first on a panel and adjust from there. I may pick up some HD polish as well for the A-pillars, C-pillars, panel edges, other `thin` surfaces and for a second step. I have some NXT on hand for final wax but am interested in Collenites for durability... however they offer quite a few choices and am not sure which product fits my need the best (recommendations welcome.)





Specific Questions:



Backing plate for HF DA... Buff and Shine 5" #500Y (thread pitch I believe on the HF DA is 5/16-24, correct? Doesn`t say on their site.)



Pads... I was going to pick up a 5 pack of `mix and match` Buff and Shine DA pads. I am going to choose 2- Oragne, 2 Black, 1 Green. Is this a reasonable composition? Or should I pick up a second 5 pack and add more variety?



MF towels... yeah, I have quite a few crappy common Wal-Mart MF rags... guess they aren`t up-to-snuff (plus I haven`t even "taken care of them" as detailed in some MF cleaning care posts) Do I need `better` MF? Or will the dime-store brand get me by? If I need better, who`s product? (Note: trying to keep shipping costs down, so Autoaility.com, 3D, etc... one-stop-shop would be nice)



Proper wash procedure... I get it; to a point. The "ABC wash"... which detergents and/or chemicals and/or additives do I need to acheive these solutions to properly prepare for clay?



Clay bar... Are all the same? Better put: is the Mother`s off-the-shelf stuff good enough or should I look into other`s, such as 3D`s stuff?





Finally: I will be using this stuff on my 2 other vehicles. So while my initial investment is high, it will be dispersed. This Honda is the worst of the three. My `03 Dodge Ram (grey) is paint wise in B+ shape. My `67 Chevelle (DuPont Chromabase, Guard`s Red, my dad and I painted 14 years ago) is in A- shape. I`m a hobbyist. My goal is to get the Honda looking better without trying to make this process more difficult than it should be or over analyze it. Or to spend excess money for naught.



If you find my logic/reasoning to be childish, immature, unfounded, or just plain stupid at some points, please state so. I`m an adult and can take constructive feedback.



Many thanks for your time.

-Dellinger

[pwaug]

Welcome to Autopia!! You’ve come to the right place for advice IMO.



I’ll take a stab at your questions in hopes that some others will chime in.



Seems like you have a reasonably sound approach to getting into machine polishing. The Harbor Freight DA is a good low cost way to get into this. Make sure you read the thread re this polisher in the Product discussion area. It is very difficult to damage your paint with a dual action polisher.



Amazon has the Griots Garage DA for $111 including shipping and that unit has the most power and includes a lifetime warranty.



I have the B&S backing plate and use B&S pads and am very happy with their performance and durability. I like the recessed Velcro as it seems to offer an added measure of safety when working around protruding objects. I believe these are the same as HD pads. Autoality has good prices and reasonable shipping charges.



It’s hard to have too many pads. I feel you need at least 4 pads for each step even when you’re cleaning on the fly (which is advisable) so I would recommend 4 orange for heavier defect removal, 4 green for polishing and 3-4 black for finishing which you may need on the Honda as they traditionally have soft paint. Also one red for applying each LSP you plan to use and dedicate each of these pads to that LSP. Don’t forget to do a 2’X2’ test spot to work out pads, product, polisher speed, arm speed etc before you move on to the entire car. After you’re done for the day you can clean them with Dawn or Dawn Power Dissolver (Walmart $2.85)



I’ve had great results with UNO and HD Polish as a novice--you will probably need the polish to finish down on the soft Honda paint even after using just UNO, but perhaps someone with more Honda experience will jump in here. Another alternative would be to use UNO for correction then finish with HD Speed on the black pads. Depending on the paint condition of the other vehicles you may also need HD Cut. HD polishes are very user/beginner friendly with long working times, no dust, no heavy oils left behind to mask swirls and are easy to remove.



Collinite 845 is a very popular wax that is easy to use and offers great durability. HD Poxy is a hybrid sealant/wax that looks great, but IMO is not quite as durable as 845.



I’ve heard good things on this forum about ProForce MF Towels from Sam’s, but I haven’t tried them as yet--about $12 for 24. Microfibertech.com is a good source of quality MF towels at great prices. Eric at Autoality also has a nice selection.



I personally like Clay Magic clay, but the Mothers and Megs should also be fine. They are pretty much all the same, but there is fine, medium etc for different levels of cleaning. I believe the Clay Magic is a mild clay.



Good Luck!!!

[Dellinger]

Pwaug- thanks for your feedback.



I`ll be sure to increase the # of pads ordered. Noted the recommendation of 845, the MF towels, and clay.





Best,

-Dellinger

[pwaug]

Just got a flyer from HF and the DA is on sale for $50. Don`t know if you can use the 20% off coupon with this sale.

[Dellinger]

Lol, yeah Pwaug, I just picked it up yesterday w/ the 20% coupon. (The coupon paid for the replacement warranty). Thanks though.

[imported_Rcrew]

I think between your initial plan and some of the feedback, you will be well on your way. I am down in Oregon City if you are ever passing by and want another set of eyes on your car

[pwaug]

"Proper wash procedure... I get it; to a point. The "ABC wash"... which detergents and/or chemicals and/or additives do I need to acheive these solutions to properly prepare for clay?"



Just realized I didn`t address this portion of your post. The "ABC" system is not just a normal wash, but a decontamination product from Valueguard ValuGard Neutralization System | Valugard (http://www.valugard.net/index.php/valugard-neutralization-system/) that removes below surface contamination in the paint. Many also use Iron X from Carpro, but I don`t believe it is as complete a decontamination as the ABC system. I haven`t as yet used either one so can`t comment beyond this info. Both are used in addition to clay that just removes above surface contaminants. Perhaps others with experience with these products will comment.

[pwaug]

Rcrew--don`t mean to high jack Dellinger`s thread, but how have your experiences been with Hard Body?? Was going to give it a try but then read quite a few posts on other forums that it really didn`t offer as much scratch protection as advertised and wasn`t that durable. BTW--love it up in your area of the country--spent quite a bit of time in Seattle when I was working and my son lives in Portland so we get up there every now and then.

[Dellinger]

I think between your initial plan and some of the feedback, you will be well on your way. I am down in Oregon City if you are ever passing by and want another set of eyes on your car



Rcrew- thanks! I may take you up on that with my `67 Chevelle. If I`m heading that way.... I`ll let you know.



Pwaug- thanks for the clarification on the ABC stuff. I`ll probably stick with the clay and some decent OTC wash.

[Dellinger]

If I may, I have some other questions...



When going from, say HD Cut to HD Polish, is there a `cure` time. Should I wait until the next day or just jump right on it after I`ve made it around the car with one product? I.E.- I know some folks like to let an LSP `cure` overnight or over a period of time. Wasn`t sure for the HD compound/ polish products?



Also, I keep reading about wiping down the panel or section after you are done w/ a QD? Is this necessary or will just a dry MF work? I have some Meguiar`s OTC QD on hand.



Also, I know Dawn should only be used to strip wax. But there`s absolutely no wax on the car. So am I correct in going for a dedicated car soap? I just know the car is on the I-5 ever day so I`m sure there`s plenty of tar/grease/oil residue/etc... on the lower part of all panels. Maybe double the amount the car soap calls for during the initial wash? Sorry, I know I`m over thinking this...and that, friends, is the beauty of the internet... every time you think you have an `idea` about a weekly chore (such as washing your car) you find a forum of `specialist` on the web and what you thought was "about right" or "yeah... I`m on the right path"... gets DUMPED on it`s ear. And you find out that you really have no clue nor had one, lol. :chuckle:



Thanks again!

[pwaug]

There is no need to allow any polish like HD Cut or HD Polish to cure as you are trying to actually remove them before applying any wax or sealant--an initial wipe with a soft MF is fine. If you are going to apply a sealant or wax other than HD POXY then you may need to wipe the paint after polishing with a 10-20% solution of IPA so the LSP can bond to the paint or you can use a paint cleaner like those from Griots or Carpro Eraser.



You don`t have to wash with DAWN before polishing, but it might be a good idea to for the sake of giving the paint a strong cleaning. To remove the tar etc you most likely will need a tar remover--Carpro TarX is one product used by many.

[Dellinger]

Pwaug, thanks again.

[Accumulator]

...[regarding]...the ABC stuff. I`ll probably stick with the clay and some decent OTC wash.



I would absolutely, positively, use the ABC. Doubt you`d need to clay afterwards either. I`m a firm believer in starting with a "clean slate" and neutralizing any/all contamination that`s accumulted over the years. It`s the first step that I do whenever I buy a new-to-me car and this situation just *screams* for that as the first step.



Polish it up as best you can with the 3D stuff and then wax with something durable. My choice would be a combination of the 845 and Collinite`s 476S paste wax. Apply the 845 first (less chance of build-up/white residue when used on trashed paint) and then apply the 476S after the next wash and whenever convenient after that. The 476S is somewhat forgiving of an imperfect finish, just what`s called for in this case. It`s also incredibly durable, moreso than many (most?) sealants.



This is the approach I use on my dark blue `93 Audi, which I purchased in *terrible* condition...as in, by Autopian standards it seriously needs repainted (it was destined for the "cash for clunkers" when I rescued it). Despite its marring, pitting, and areas of clearcoat failure, it gets compliments all the time and most normal people would say it looks wonderful.

[Dellinger]

Accumulator- Thanks for the information. Ok then, I`ll get some of this ABC wash going then and layer the Collinites, as you recommend. Note, if I were to clay... should this be after the ABC wash or prior, in the grand scheme of things...?



I`m unemployed right now and my new job doesn`t start until late April.... so fortunately/ unfortunately I`ve got all the time in the world to do this.



Revised plan, at this point...



Wash w/ Dawn



ABC wash



*Clay* (Step will be altered in order to before ABC, if recommended, or; step will be dismissed if recommended)



Compound (either Cut or UNO depending on test spot and pad combo)



Polish w/ HD



LSP- 845



After first wash, another wax w/ 476S



You guys are great!

[Accumulator]

Dellinger- Two ways to add the claying to the ABC:



-Claying while the "B" is dwelling. This can work well if there`s a lot of ferrous contamination on there (lots of "rust blooms") but it sure eats up the clay fast. Using the AutoInt/ValuGard "bug pad" accomplishes pretty much the same thing, but they *are* different approaches and sometimes one is better than the other.



-Claying after the ABC to remove anything tenaciously stuck to the finish. Not likely that the ABC won`t get everything but you never know.



Oh, and I would *not* bother with the Dawn wash. "A" is *SO* much more effective that it`d be a complete waste of time. Instead, spend the time cleaning out your wheelwells and areas like around the fuel filler (back side of that quarter panel) so you don`t end up with corrosion from a bunch of dirt/whatever building up there and harboring moisture.