What is a paint cleanser?

[Ivan Gordiyenko]

I was quickly looking over some of the procedures some professional detailer was doing and they mentioned, after they rinsing the car, they pre soak it with citrus paint cleanser ? what is this "citrus paint cleanser"

[Accumulator]

It`s a type of All Purpose Cleanser that`s usually very good for emulsifying oily contamination. It`s also nice and safe for all surfaces (well...generally speaking and within reason ;) ). Will generally leave things "squeeky clean".



The "standard" such product is P21s Total Auto Wash ("P21s TAW"). Google it up and you`ll learn what the whole "citrus detailing product" thing is all about.



Whether you oughta give it any real thought, let alone buy/use it, well...that`s another matter; I haven`t touched mine in years. When I want to accomplish something that people use the P21s TAW for, eh, I generally use different stuff these days. And I don`t do that kind of stuff once in a blue moon anyhow.

[togwt]

Citrus based or d-limonene is a colourless liquid hydrocarbon classified as a cyclic terpene; considered a ‘safe’ solvent, which are increasingly being used for cleaning purposes, such as the removal of oil from machine parts, as it is produced from a renewable source (citrus oil, as a by-product of orange juice manufacture).



A paint cleaner - There are three distinct type; Abrasive, Chemical (solvent) and Chemical (neutralised acid)



They can be used to break down and remove oils, waxes and polymers" from the surface instead of a polish if the paint surface condition (i.e. lack of scratches) and to ensure a pristine surface before the application of a wax. Paint cleaners vary in their formulation; chemical cleaning, abrasive, some lave a surface protection and some don’t



Paint cleaning is accomplished in two ways; cleanse the paint with chemicals, or use an abrasive polish what’s the differences, paint cleaners use chemicals designed to remove dead paint, which in turn, brightens colours, and enhances gloss and reflection. It can be applied and removed by hand or machine and it`s often the choice for new paint, or paint which has been well maintained, and/or free of discernable swirls or scratches. It`s also used on surfaces which need to be "stripped" of existing protectants, to apply a new "layer" of protection.

[Ivan Gordiyenko]

i found a citrus degreaser from homedepot which costs 10 bucks for 1 gallon. on the the site its just called a "citrus cleaner" would that be safe to spray on paint to remove grease and oils or should it be diluted to not be as concentrated

[togwt]

i found a citrus degreaser from homedepot which costs 10 bucks for 1 gallon. on the the site its just called a "citrus cleaner" would that be safe to spray on paint to remove grease and oils or should it be diluted to not be as concentrated



A `citrus degreaser is much too vague a description; without knowing its chemical content I cannot comment...have you checked its MSDS

[tom p.]

Yeah, I`m afraid TOGWT is right, Ivan. There are so many citrus-based products that it is tough to answer such a specific product question from the other end of the keyboard. I think I own the ZEP product you found at Home Depot. I`ve never used it on the cars, but only for generic cleaning tasks and thought that it worked OK. Problem is, I`ve got 5 other citrus-based cleaners from various sources. They`re all OK. I have one called Orange Blast. I think I found that at Walmart and have continued purchasing it since it did work better than some of the others. If you wish to end the guess work, focus on the P21S product mentioned by Accumulator in post #2...that is the "big boy" of them all and a kick-azz product. It will not disappoint as it contains an usually high d-limonene content.



I assume you are attempting to de-wax and do a final clean prior to your last step product (LSP) application. The P21S product could get expensive when doing cars. I have found a superior Home Depot product called Spray 9 and it`s also a de-greaser type product but you end up with a gallon for $11 or so. Some might suggest using Dawn, but I`m not a fan of that strategy due to negative experience.



I`ll always urge caution when using these products...proceed with caution. Avoid applying in the sun. Don`t permit to dwell too long. WATCH OUT for spots/streaking.



Welcome aboard, Ivan !



Oh, there`s also this Paintwork Cleanser by P21S. A few other companies offer similar, but this is an entirely different class of product.



http://www.detailedimage.com/products/auto/82_1_lw_2722.jpg

[Dan]

And lets not forget the chemical guys citrus wash (& no gloss :D).

[Accumulator]

Here`s my (?overly conservative?) take on using "non-detailing" products- What if it causes a problem, a serious problem. Does it matter to you? Is the savings/convenience worth the risk *to you*? I know how *I* would answer that question, but that`s just me.



People use [off-label stuff] and and it works great... right up until it doesn`t and then they`re posting here asking for some (usually immediate) miracle-help; "what happened?!? how do I fix this?!?"

[Dan]

Agree with Accumulator, plus add the fact that a lot of those chemicals aren`t "Bubba Proof"

[Ivan Gordiyenko]

I am not going to use knock off products on cars or products that arent specifically meant for cars. Kind of risky. I brought up this citrus wash because before i wanted to do any kind of scrubbing and washing ,try to remove as much of the oils and grease from the paint. maybe there is an alternative method or products, or maybe this isnt really necessary at all and just go ahead and water down the car thoroughly and start washing

[pwaug]

At $15 per gallon the 3D Orange Degreaser is reasonably priced and safe for automotive paint--- Car Interior/Exterior Cleaner for Removing Toughest Stains, Stickers, Grease | Orange 88 Citrus Degreaser (http://www.3dproducts.com/APC-Orange-Citrus-Degreaser.html)

[Ivan Gordiyenko]

Ill have to check this degreaser out

[dfoxengr]

Whether you oughta give it any real thought, let alone buy/use it, well...that`s another matter; I haven`t touched mine in years. When I want to accomplish something that people use the P21s TAW for, eh, I generally use different stuff these days. And I don`t do that kind of stuff once in a blue moon anyhow.



Could you elaborate on these comments please? I`ve thought about a pre-wax wash as well but don`t really have a great reason to go for it. Something like KAIO or another regular chemical paint cleaner would replace the citrus stuff, but I`ve only used KAIO when water spots need removing. Is cleaning the paint after polishing going to double the life of my wax? Probably not, so if I keep up with regular wash/wax maintenance then I wonder if there is a real benefit.

[Accumulator]

Could you elaborate on these comments please? I`ve thought about a pre-wax wash as well but don`t really have a great reason to go for it. Something like KAIO or another regular chemical paint cleaner would replace the citrus stuff, but I`ve only used KAIO when water spots need removing. Is cleaning the paint after polishing going to double the life of my wax? Probably not, so if I keep up with regular wash/wax maintenance then I wonder if there is a real benefit.



If I want to clean my paint/vehicle of previously applied LSPs, in the sense of doing a "super-strength wash", I`ll do a regular wash first (regular shampoos have the best lubricity, so there`s the least chance of marring) and then either spray the vehicle down with TOL/Hi-Temp Prep Wash (link: Silicone & Wax Remover (http://www.topoftheline.com/silicone-wax-remover.html) ) or rewash with AutoInt/ValuGard`s "A".



If I want to strip the previously applied LSP via the "use a polisher" method, I`ll do the car with either an AIO (Klasse or Zaino) or *maybe*, in some cases, I`ll do it with Pinnacle`s Paintwork Cleansing Lotion.



If I want to clean the paint post-polishing/pre-LSPing, say...to remove any polishing oils, I`ll use the PrepWash or the "A". NO, I don`t always do this and NO I don`t think that this kind of "oil stripping" will necessarily make the LSP last twice as long. Note that others will disagree with me on this. There are times when I do the stripping, and times when I don`t. But if I use M205 I *ALWAYS* strip the oils off, and that can be a huge PIA to accomplish as they`re very tenacious.



Similarly, when refreshing an existing LSP, many people will *always* do a (presumably very gentle) claying beforehand. While I`m a *BIG* proponent of using ultra-fine clays (I like Sonus SFX with their Glyde lube), I don`t always bother doing it if I don`t think it`s necessary. And no, my LSPs don`t fail prematurely when I skip the clay.



Note that in *my* case, the above refreshing is all I usually do. I very seldom polish, usually only to effect spot-correction, and merely adding a fresh coat of LSP is usually sufficient for my vehicles. But this is because I`m so meticulous about my wash, utterly off-the-scale when it comes to avoiding wash-induced marring.

[dfoxengr]

great post, thank you.