Swirl Problem;here we go again.

[Megladon]

I have a black car that seems to like swirls. I use the two-bucket wash method, with grit guards and a foam gun (Gilmour). Quality shampoo and 2 100% genuine sheepskin wash mitts. Panel by panel without any pressure letting the mitt glide over the paint. I even soak the dirty panels with waterless wash. Yet still get fine scrathes. Im done, and need some help as I can`t polish everytime I wash the car.

Step by step process:

1.) Rinse the car with a gentle shower.

2.) Spot treat lower body panels and heavy soiled areas with 1z Anti-Insekt. (1-2 minutes)

3.) Foam the entire car with DP Xtreme Foam in the foam gun at full blast. (At DP dilution ratio)

4.) Two-bucket wash, panel by panel with no pressure at all with Sonax Gloss Shampoo.

5.) Rinse off.

6.) Sheet dry with Ionized water.

7.) Finally dry car with leaf blower. (electric model)

8.) Blot dry remaining wayer droplets with Water Sprite.



* What am I doing wrong here as I want to be done with swirls. Thanks in advance.

[imported_RZJZA80]

Sorry, but there`s no such thing as being done with swirls, especially on a black car. No matter how careful you are, swirls will happen. All you can really do, is to try and minimize the swirling while you wash and dry.

[imported_detail1]

I would try a different wash mitt. I like using Boars Head brushes or Proline grout sponges.



I always add a cap full of ONR to my regular car wash for extra lubrication.

[Accumulator]

Eh, I kept the black Yukon XLD 99% marring-free, even though I was dog-hauling with it year-round (consider Ohio winters :eek: ). But that was reasonably hard GM clear too, and yeah, at some point, well....marring happens.



Megladon- IMO you need to get more of the "big stuff" off before switching to the mitts. I`d use the foamgun in conjunction with a BHB; wash with that until you *think* everything`s clean, and then rewash with the mitts to remove what`s left. I`ll often wash each area four or more times, with each pass being far too gentle to get all the dirt off by itself.



The foamgun output should be directed at the point where the bristles of the BHB (and the nap of the mitt) contact the paint.



I never let my wash media touch the vehicle without foamgun output being directed at the point of contact. It`ll provide lots of lubrication and will also flush awah dirt as it gets dislodged.



Remember to move the BHB/mitt in "interrupted jiggling" motions so the foamgun can flush away any dirt and so that any marring that does happen won`t be some long, sweeping scratch.



Is there any dirt in your rinse bucket? IF so, that`s a clue that you`re dragging dirt across the paint (my rinse buckets are quite clean even after washing a winter-filthy vehicle).



When using the mitts, try filling them with shampoo solution from the wash bucket or foamgun, and hold the mitt shut at the cuff so it seeps out through the backing. When it`s "empty" it`s time to rinse/refill, if you don`t rinse before that.



You don`t wash...like...half a panel before rinsing the mitt do you?



My situation is different because of my boosted water pressure (the foamgun basically keeps the wash medium flushed clean all the time), but with normal household pressure I`d probaby rinse the BHB/mitt out after maybe a quarter of a door. As soon as it gets dirty, it`s a scratch-machine; I don`t buy the idea that dirt gets "caught up away from the paint".



Oh, and I don`t do a "gentle rinse" first, I use a quite forceful one to get as much dirt off as possible. I find the presoak foaming to be of little benefit if I do the whole car, but I do each panel before I start washing it.

[911fanatic]

The most important part of the wash is the pre rinse. If you are leaving loose grit on the paint when you start to wash, you WILL scratch your paint. At that point, the number of buckets and type of soap/wash medium becomes a mute point. I wish more people would focus on what they do BEFORE the wash medium hits the paint. Get yourself a small pressure washer if your tap pressure isn`t enough to knock the loose grit off. Pre rinse, foam, rinse and then start your two bucket wash.

[Accumulator]

In the absence of a real pressure washer, I use a siphon-feed sprayer that hooks up to my air compressor. Yeah, very half-@$$ed substitute but it`s better than nothing and it doesn`t get overspray/mist all over the shop the way my pressure washers used to do. I use it on the really dirty areas during the winter, but don`t need it the rest of the year (even though I let my vehicles get awfully dirty between washes).

[Megladon]

I was on a fishing trip, hence why I haven`t replied heh.



@RZJZA80: I was afraid someone would say that :|



@detail1: I`ve never tried Boars hair brushes. What brand do you use or recommend? I`ve always heard sponges can scratch because the dirt get trapped over time, so I`ve stayed away from them, but I do enjoy using them. These Proline are good then huh.



@Accumulator: Very detailed instructions you got there, sweet. Once I get the BHB I will do as you stated. I wash like half a door on a small cars worth before rinsing. Yeah that whole lifting off the paint thing is not true, if it was my car would be swirl-free. Toyota has soft clear, not the softest though. When a true scratch resistant clear is released i`ll be a happy camper as a lot of my fellow Autopians will. How do you have boosted water pressure? My pressure sucks real bad. Yeah that gentle shower is going to turn into a monsoon ha.



@detailfanatic: Yeah, as I told Accumulator; I will be correcting that. I have a cheap Karcher PW. That`s good enough I guess. I mostly invest in good supplies. Idk what models are the best. I don`t like the noisy industrial ones, and fear of chipping my paint in an accident.



@Accumulator: I only have an option to detail outside. Which is why I dread waxing.

[pwaug]

undefinedMegladon--Have you thought about giving it a coat of OptiCoat 2.0?? Should be harder than your clear. Also, I`ve had good luck with the Carpro Merino Wool mitt--the mesh hand pocket allows you to keep pressure off the paint to just lightly glide the mitt over the surface- CARPRO WASH MITT.wmv - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ul6GypoeI)

[Accumulator]

megladon- Yikes, working outside will be challenging!



My boosted pressure is a pretty involved system with a holding tank and booster pump (we had to get it as we really expanded the house and didn`t want to tear out all the walls to upgrade the existing plumbing). The way it supercharges my foamgun was an unanticipated benefit.



If you use the BHB to "knock the big stuff loose" you might see a nice improvement, just remember that very gentle passes won`t get much dirt off on a per-pass basis. Use the BHBs until you think it looks really clean and *then* switch to the mitt(s). With the BHBs, don`t press hard enough for the bristles to bend over, you want only the very tips against the paint, not the "shafts" of the bristles. Keep the foamgun output going, and I`d *really* emphasize that "short interrupted jiggling motion" thing so whatever marring you do get won`t be a foot or more long.



Be forewarned, my approach really goes through shampoo mix! Last time I did the Crown Vic I used over 1.5 gallons of mix through the foamgun (and that`s in addition to what was in the wash bucket). I mix each gallon of mix this way- 6oz. shampoo, remainder water. I use the two or three strongest foamgun mixes, adjusting as I think necessary; the work with the BHB is always at the strongest settings, sometimes I`m OK dialing it back a bit for the passes with the mitt(s).

[Accumulator]

pwaug- Yikes, those long passes in that YouTube make me cringe! It does look like it`d be easy to moderate the pressure though, that`s a lot better in that regard than "regular mitts", which have to be awkwardly held up above the surface.

[pwaug]

pwaug- Yikes, those long passes in that YouTube make me cringe! It does look like it`d be easy to moderate the pressure though, that`s a lot better in that regard than "regular mitts", which have to be awkwardly held up above the surface.

I must admit you got me thinking about my wash procedure to the point I`ve made some changes like the carpro mitt and the jiggling movements rather than the long strokes, but I doubt I`d have the patience to use your entire process. This mitt is really a pleasure to use--the fibers are so long it`s very easy to hold the majority of the weight off of the paint as the hand pocket is very secure. Hey, but at least I`m making some progress. It will be interesting to see the condition of my wife`s new black Golf after the winter.

[Megladon]

@pwaug: I have thought about it, but it has a very bland look. I personally like trying out new waxes?

/sealants and change the look of nicely preped paint. Like changing outfits. I`ve never tried that mitt, will have to rinse even more frequently since it doesn`t have two sides. Haha the "undefined" part had me laughing.



@Accumulator: It really will be. Idk how some people manage gracefully.I



Nice setup, when it comes to knocking down things you really have to substitute especially if your county building codes are strict.



I will emphasize the jiggling movement. Hmm so the tips only, like the duster almost.



I have shampoo in large quanties, as I detail all my dads cars in additon to my moms and mine. That won`t be a concern as long as my paint reflects the improvement. What shampoo do you use?

[Accumulator]

pwaug- No question about the patience/self-discipline/etc. issues! I tell ya, it can be downright nerve-wracking! Doing that Yukon XLD was such a PIA that the whole "keeping it perfect" thing was perhaps the primary reason I sold it; I couldn`t enjoy it with marring and I got so tired of those washes that I found I wasn`t driving it enough to justify owning the thing.



Megladon- I use Griot`s Garage Car Wash exclusively.

[addysdaddy]

hmmm,, BHB is a wash media that doesn`t get a lot of mention; however I`ve seen several Mike P videos and he uses a BHB on a stick all the time to wash a vehicle. Is there on brand that is recommended over others, as I`m thinking this might help my back? Currently I have a Swobbit Lambs Wool "pad" on a stick that I use on the truck. On my car I`m using the white Shmitt or the Optimum version but that of course requires bending over.

[Accumulator]

hmmm,, BHB is a wash media that doesn`t get a lot of mention; however I`ve seen several Mike P videos and he uses a BHB on a stick all the time to wash a vehicle. Is there on brand that is recommended over others, as I`m thinking this might help my back.



Gotta use `em right or they`re scratch-machines. And there aren`t very many good ones on the market.



Do the dreaded SEARCH on threads that I`ve started (there aren`t that many of `em) and look at my BHB Comparison thread. Currently, the only BHB I recommend is the "Montana" from AutoGeek, but there`s some other one that looked very promising...forget its name and I haven`t tested it (yet ;) ).



That "on a stick" thing....my take on that is that it`d preclude spraying foamgun output at the point of bristle/paint contact, and I *insist* on being able to do that.