Leather conditioning

[White_Falcon]

Hi everyone



I would like to know what seems to be everyones preferred leather conditioning product. I have no preference at this time, so I`m thinking I`d try the popular choice first. I wish there was a way of conducting a poll.



Anyways, comments are always appreciated and read, so feel free to tell me why you prefer product ______.

[David Fermani]

Water via a damp towel.



I wipe my leather down with a damp towel on a regular basis to keep the dirt off of it. Keep in mind that you`re not treating the leather, just the clear polyurethane coating over it. There are only a few leather products that I feel are safe on leather for cleaning.

[White_Falcon]

@David - What would those products be?



I didn`t know there was a polyurethane coating on leather seats. Interesting. So, how do you keep your seats from drying out if you only use water?

[David Fermani]

Depending on what I`m working on I reach for 1 of these 3 products:



HD Total: 3D is in the process of re-releasing this product. Call them directly to obtain. (not on website at the moment)



Optimum Power Clean: http://www.detailersdomain.com/Optimum-Power-Clean-All-Purpose-Cleaner-Degreaser_p_193.html



Leather Masters Strong Cleaner: http://www.detailersdomain.com/Leather-Master-Strong-Cleaner-Leather-Cleaner_p_143.html

[Accumulator]

White_Falcon- If you do the dreaded SEARCH you`ll find that this is a, uhm....contentious subject.



Yeah, most modern automotive leathers are coated so most "conditioning" products never even actually contact the leather *as long as that coating is intact*.



IME, most automotive leather doesn`t "dry out" these days. I hardly *EVER* treat my leather and it stays OK.



If merely wiping with a damp cloth and using one of the "Interior QD" products just isn`t enough for you (I understand, it`s like you`re "not doing enough") then something like the LeatherMasters duo of their Cleaner and Protectant (or similar stuff from Sonus or The Leather Doctor) should work fine. I`ve used all three of those with swell results.



Just don`t slop on (gee, that even sounds awful, huh?!?) the typical "Leather Conditioner" from the autoparts store. It`ll merely leave a slimy film of [crap] on your seats that will attract/retain dirt and overall make things worse instead of better. I won`t pick on any products by naming names, but IMO most of the stuff people buy for this falls into the "don`t use that!" category.



The simple truth is that the single best thing you can do is keep the leather clean, in large part just because that will preserve the coating; remember that dirt is abrasive (gee, sound familar huh? Like when we talk about washing the outside of the vehicle ;) ).

[togwt]

Unless a Premium Leather option was purchased the type of leather upholstery used by ~ 95% of OEM is a multi stratum covering over the leather hide; the top strata is the surface pigmentation (colour) and an abrasion resistant urethane.

Premium leatherhas a recognizable fragrance that is missing from polyurethane and plastic. Simple cleaning, hydration and protection are the steps that will prolong the life of finished leather.



1. Clean - there are two cleaning-related factors that can cause your leather to wear prematurely. The first is dirt, and the second is oil, combined they become very abrasive, as dirt / grit and subsequent friction cause the finish to wear



2. Hydrated – when leather tanner’s talk about conditioning leather they are referring to its moisture content, re-hydration is used to restore or maintain fluid balance (transpiration and evaporation of moisture); not the replenishment or replacement of the fat liquoring, oils and / or waxes.



3. Protected - is essential as it will protect the surface finish as a sacrificial layer; this way you are not actually cleaning the Leather`s original surface, but cleaning from the surface of the protection. It also makes dirt easier to clean off





Urethane doesn’t require conditioning; always keep in mind that you’re dealing with the finished coating on the leather and not with the leather hide itself



“Proper Finished Leather Cleaning and Care” - http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-detailing/136421-proper-finished-leather-cleaning-care.html

[David Fermani]

Urethane doesn’t require conditioning; always keep in mind that you’re dealing with the finished coating on the leather and not with the leather hide itself





Hypothetically speaking.......If you put a conditioner on a coated seat and gently cleaned and re-conditioned it on a regular basis will it degrade the coating over time?

[chrisguga]

I hear nothing but good things about Dr. Leather wipes. I haven`t tried them, but I intend to.



I personally use a weak dilution of Woolite. ~10:1 Works great.

[togwt]

Hypothetically speaking.......If you put a conditioner on a coated seat and gently cleaned and re-conditioned it on a regular basis will it degrade the coating over time?



Leather Tanning Process



All cowhides are naturally oily, unfortunately, these natural oils are stripped away in the tanning process (tanning is a process using a water vat and chromium salts to preserve hides) and some equivalent oils must be re-introduced after tanning (See article “Fat Liquoring”)



These fat liquoring formulas are closely held secrets, passed down through generations; they are neither volatile nor migratory, this is the origin of the new car ‘leather smell’. This is one reason why one company`s leather can have a totally different feel, fragrance, texture and softness from another company`s product.



Leather Hides



Raw hides have four main parts - an epidermis, grain, corium and flesh



Two of these layers, the epidermis (which is a thin protective layer of cells during the life of an animal) and the flesh are removed during tanning by a process called liming.



This leaves just the grain and the corium, the parts that are used for automotive leather upholsteryThe grain layer is made of collagen and elastin protein fibres and its structure varies quite a bit depending on the age, breed and lifestyle of the animal. The grain carries many distinctive marks such as insect bites, growth marks and wound scars giving the leather a unique appearance.



The corium is packed with collagen protein fibres, arranged in larger bundles and interwoven to give the structure great strength, excellent elasticity and durability. In the tanning process these fibres and impregnated with collagens that are designed to hold them together and keep them supple. Much of the suppleness of leather comes from its moisture content. After tanning the skin is protected with a thin pigmented (colour) urethane and then a clear topcoat.



The thickness of the corium increases with age which is why calfskins are thinner, smoother and softer than the hides of mature animals. Hides from cows are smoother, thinner and softer than the hides of mature male bull hides which are thick, tough, course grained and very strong.



When corium fibres lose moisture they shrink, when they are hydrated with water moisture they swell. The best way to care for finished leather and to keep wrinkles to a minimum is to keep the leather properly hydrated and avoid, as much as possible, these shrinking and swelling cycles. Keeping leather hydrated only requires a regular wipe down with a damp cotton towel



Leather Conditioning



Leather is the hide removed from a deceased animal and the tanning / curing processes used seal in the necessary oils during the fat liquoring stage, thereby ensuring that the fibres cannot nor, do they need to be fed. Hide foods are something again that can be used in the horse and saddle business or with the older Aniline type dyed leathers. There are numerous leather conditioning products in the marketplace, and they generally have the same overall function: to preserve the aesthetics of leather. However this can be better accomplished by replacing moisture (hydration) lost through evaporation.



There is no correlation between the cosmetics used for skin care and how we look after finished leather upholstery, Proteins, Collagen, Lanolin, Oils and Aloe are used for human skin reconstruction and nutrition, finished leather is not like human skin, its dead and cannot be regenerated or revived.



[Finished leather is a very chemically complex material, and if the conditioning product is incompatible it can have a damaging effect; peeling and / or cracking of the finish, colour transfer ("crocking"), yellowing, and general degradation are some of the problems that can be caused by the application of an improperly formulated, incompatible leather treatment product] Leather Research Laboratory



When corium fibres lose moisture they shrink, when they are hydrated with water moisture they swell. The best way to care for finished leather and to keep wrinkles to a minimum is to keep the leather properly hydrated and avoid, as much as possible, these shrinking and swelling cycles. Keeping leather hydrated only requires a regular wipe down with a damp cotton towel

[White_Falcon]

@TOGWT - very detailed explanation (as per your usual articles posted on the forum).



So, my take-away from the replies is, all these years, I`ve pretty much been getting ripped of buying all of these conditioners when a simple damp clothe would have sufficed. Feeling like a sucker right now! Of course, there was a time when Armour All on my dash was the bomb and Turtle Wax Ice was Awesome, until I realized that after a week, I had more dust then shine. I guess I`m evolving!

[David Fermani]

There are numerous leather conditioning products in the marketplace, and they generally have the same overall function: to preserve the aesthetics of leather. However this can be better achieved by replacing moisture (hydration) lost through evaporation.



[Finished leather is a very chemically complex material, and if the conditioning product is incompatible it can have a damaging effect; peeling and / or cracking of the finish, colour transfer ("crocking"), yellowing, and general degradation are some of the problems that can be caused by the application of an improperly formulated, incompatible leather treatment product]Leather Research Laboratory



To reinterate my point in a general kind of way; if a mainstream conditioner treatment is used, and you are regularly cleaning to surface to eleminate dirt abrasion, will the use of said conditioner cause any premature avoidable wear?





Is this damaging effect from the actual ingredient in the conditioner or the possible dirt/soiling captured from it being used coupled with abrasion?





What is your opinion on mink oil or neat’s foot oil?

[togwt]

To reiterate my point in a general kind of way; if a mainstream conditioner treatment is used, and you are regularly cleaning to surface to eliminate dirt abrasion, will the use of said conditioner cause any premature avoidable wear?



Using a water-based conditioner on a clean surface will help to hydrate the hide, although water moisture will do the job better and is less expensive.



Using an oil-based conditioner on a clean surface will do nothing but stay on the surface until its removed by the abrasion of clothing.



However if there are fissures (cracks) in the urethane surface it may permeate and cause delamination between the hide and the urethane, it can also migrate via the stitching



Is this damaging effect from the actual ingredient in the conditioner or the possible dirt/soiling captured from it being used coupled with abrasion?



Some conditioners use oils, solvents and other chemicals that are detrimental to both the urethane and the hide. Oils and soil / grit are very abrasive due to the exiting and entering the vehicle and will abrade the urethane causing it to fail



What is your opinion on mink oil or neat’s foot oil?



The liquefied fat from Mink oil is used mainly in the cosmetics industry (skin care) and is the main ingredient, along with silicone oil used for waterproofing, which negates transpiration (evaporation and hydration), which is necessary for the proper care of leather.



Neat’s-foot oil and Lanolin (Latin: lāna "wool", and oleum, "oil") has some major disadvantages - it softens uncoated leather very easily and can lead to the seating areas sagging, it is also susceptible to microbial attack, and can cause the leather stitching to rot. Lanolin oil and the urethanes used as either a pigment or protective coating on automobile finished leather upholstery are not compatible as they will corrode the binder system, causing it to fail.

[togwt]

@TOGWT - very detailed explanation (as per your usual articles posted on the forum).



So, my take-away from the replies is, all these years, I`ve pretty much been getting ripped of buying all of these conditioners when a simple damp clothe would have sufficed. Feeling like a sucker right now! Of course, there was a time when Armour All on my dash was the bomb and Turtle Wax Ice was Awesome, until I realized that after a week, I had more dust then shine. I guess I`m evolving!





I looked at one vendor`s website an they had more than five pages of lether conditioning products, which are best sellers and make them huge profits; of course they don`t want you to use water (hydration) to condition finished leather.



I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given, all of which will help you to make an informed decision. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts? In the final analysis; it’s your vehicle, your hard earned money and your choice.



Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than an unbiased opinion. One of the advantages of being independent and not having to answer to shareholders



Choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon. The misinformation and myths that are so prevalent in the detail industry is the reason that detailers need to do research on their own. Treat all marketing claims as being just biased marketing claims and if you`re lucky they will be based on truth and the company will operate ethically.



I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you. It is the individual’s responsibility to confirm the information supplied and apply it to their situation.

[Ron Ketcham]

Jon, I could not have said it better.

The "internet" is a wondreful source of information.

However, if one is doesn`t actually spend time to "research" the source of the internet information provided, they are open to "agenda/marketing" information, not from those who have real time and work in doing/using products or processes/procedures over a time of such that allows them to see what may be the acutal results of using products, etc, time and time again.

My advice is simple, look at "who" is providing the "information", what is their "back ground" and "time" in the use of such products/processes.

Every year, paints, interior trim, exterior trim, etc are changing, and one or two or even 4 or 5 work that one that one`s reads about, well, it is "one persons expeinces, not such that may be at the minimum, a "true and proven", with no damage, etc to what that one`s wishes to find a resolution to.

Folks have "ego`s", and they love to use the internet to share with others, and just because "it is written" on the internet, does not make it right.

Grumpy

[chrisguga]

Great advice here.



Basically, if the person giving the advice has financial gain/incentive driving their recommendations in any way, take it with a grain of salt.