Bird Etching - Clearcoat failure?!

[jason2215]

Hey folks. I did some searching but nothing that quite seemed to fit this situation, so a little background...



My wife`s `12 VW CC (black) has been hit by bird droppings 3 times (the first being right after I finished a detail w/ Poorboys EX-P for final step). The first two I couldn`t get to for, we`ll call it 3 days. I was very surprised to see that they had already etched through the clearcoat. I don`t have pictures available, but it`s a dull mark of the entire poop, I`m sure you`ve seen it before). The third, the poop was on the car for MAYBE an hour. I immediately sprayed and wiped away. Still, there was an etching.



I did try to get the first couple etchings out using my DA and (up to) PB`s 2.5, but started to get worried about damaging the clearcoat further after so many attempts so I gave up.



Does this sound like some type of clearcoat failure to you? I have never seen this happen so quickly, even on our previous black car. At this rate, the car will be covered in these spots in a couple of years.



Any advice/thoughts/suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!!!!

[tom p.]

You might want to try a different sealant following correction. Some certainly appear more resistant to birds than others.



Welcome aboard!

[Ron Ketcham]

Black base coat under the clear, higher skin temperatures, the clear expands (it is a "cousin" to plastic), and allows the acids to quickly penetrate. The heat creates increased "reactivity" of the acids and any moisture that is not a "base" (IE opposite of acid)will become very active and eat at the resin system of the clearcoat.

Get a magnifier, at least a 10X, look closely at the spots.

1. If you see cloudiness, it`s starting to fail.

2. If on closer inspection and observation, you observe "small bubbles" or "cracking", the damage is done and can not be repaired by buffing or anything other than a trip to a quality bodyshop.

3. If you see the base coat or primers, see item #2.

Grumpy

[Dan]

If you have real issues with birds, I`d recommend switching to a real carnauba based LSP system. It won`t be nearly as durable but you`ll get better protection. A good bulk of sealants don`t hold up well to bird poo.

[jason2215]

Thanks Tom. Yeah, I am actually trying out BFWD for the first time on one of my other cars this weekend. I`ve read on here that it`s a pretty good protectant. I`m mostly astonished that the damage was done so quickly regardless of what I had on the car. It just doesn`t seem normal in that amount of time.

[Thomas Dekany]

Welcome Jason - it is normal - I mean it is a black car, and it is sunny right now. 2 things against you case. Sorry.



I would also try a better product than 2.5. You will not thin the clear with that product too much.



Hope you will be able to resolve it



Where are you located? Maybe an autopian is in your area and could look or even remove it for you.

[jason2215]

Hmm, I think my original reply didn`t make it.



Thanks Thomas, while I hate to see it happening, I guess I`m glad it`s not the clear at fault. I have a bottle of optimum compound, but it`s like 4 years old and I don`t trust it...can you recommend a product/pad combo that would be good for trying to get rid of the etching? I`d like to try and tackle it myself if it`s within my skillset and the abilities of my DA.



I`m in the gulf coast, (MS) so if anyone is in the Biloxi area I`m always up for some education!! :nerd1:

[Thomas Dekany]

Well, I personally use HD UNO and HD POLISH - those 2 will tackle it if the etching is not too deep



If you order these items, use coupon code TD5



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[togwt]

Be cognizant that there are no polymers, nanotechnology coatings or waxes that are acid-proof; they all only offer short-term resistance. The most pertinent factor is to have a layer of (sacrificial) protection between the acid and your paint surface. The second is to ensure that is removed and any residue is neutralized as soon as possible. For added protection apply an organic wax over the polymer sealant, as this acts as a sacrificial barrier and by washing the vehicles paint surface plus the reapplication of the sacrificial barrier on a regular basis.



“Bird excrement; the most damaging environmental pollutants” - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-detailing-wiki/137090-bird-excrement%3B-most-damaging-environmental-pollutants.html

[Dan]

As TOGWT stated, its important to remove bird poo as soon as you see it. I recommend carrying a travel sized sprayer filled with ONR and a couple MF towels. I also tell my SO to let me know as soon as she spots any poo on her car. You just can`t let the stuff sit.

[Ron Ketcham]

And, reading the first part of my post, are the real facts of what makes it happen.

The acids MUST be flushed or enough water applied and allowed to dilute the acid to have a chance of stopping the acidic actions of the acids and "proteins" in the bird droppings.

Sometimes, as little as 15 minutes after the dropping hit the surface, the degradation of the clear may be to much.

As I stated, it is dependant on the tempature of the surface (how much the pores of the paint have opened) humidity in the air, type of clear, etc, so NO one easy answer to stopping the damage.

Any quality "polymer sealant" or a good high content wax will slow it down.

The advantage of the "polymer sealant" is that a good one contains amino-functional polymer resins, which are about as good of an "anti-corrosive" coating one may apply. Plus, they have a higher "fracture point" (melt) than waxes, other than a few very high temp synthetic waxes.

Once the "fracturing" of the coating takes place, it is no longer able to withstand the attack of the acids, etc.

Grumpy

[indiej]

It could be all about the "proteins". They can accelerate the damage that`s happening which could be upwards a million times.



When possible I wet then hose off asap or the convenient hand sanitizer. Learned all these from this forum. :bow

[jason2215]

Thanks everybody. I just don`t see how it is necessary to check the car every 15 minutes to make sure there isn`t any fresh poop to ruin the clear. I`ve never had to do that before with any car until now. BUT, it is what it is. I`ll definitely find a good wax to throw on top of the finish for a little more protection. I`ll try whatever!! Thanks again for all the input!

[Dan]

FK1000P is probably going to be your best bet on a black car.