Very dull, almost dry paint - need some advice, 3000GT VR4

[Nick VR4]

I have 95 3000GT VR4, it`s been sitting a while and the paint has gone very dull, it almost feels dry. I washed it today (first time in prob 6 months) and tried some Turtle Wax Ice Polish, it helped some but the paint is still dull/dry (also has some etching).

I am also noticing some pinkish/red coloring on my towels (car is red) I fear this may mean the clear coat is worn?



I`ve been wanting to purchase a Flex machine for a while so this is as good excuse to do so. I`ve never used any machine before, and from what I`ve read it seems like the Flex is a great machine and good for beginners also.



My question is what product should I use to bring the glossy shine back? I`ve used Zaino in the past, and have been happy with it, but if there is another product that would work better for bring dull paint back to life I would be happy to give it a try. Also what pads would I want to use?



Any advice would be appreciated.

[Thomas Dekany]

What color is the 3000?



The flex will do the job for sure. Are you open to any brand? How about protection? is this a daily driver?

[imported_Bence]

It is single stage red, and it`s chalky and oxidized. Usually these paints can be brought back wonderfully.



Sometimes in these cases a reversed order is the right approach. Remove the oxidation with an AIO, such as Klasse/Carlack, etc., THEN polish the paint to perfection. In some instances a very oily product like Megs #7 can help too, Smear a thick film on and leave overnight. Then hit it with for example #80 first, to see the corrective abilities, then if needed switch to a more aggressive product.



Bilt Hamber Auto Balm is a wonderful oxidation remover which can protect the paint extremely well.

[Thomas Dekany]

Auto Balm has the worst durability as an LSP here in Oregon. I couldn`t believe how fast it was gone. Definitely wasted my money on that product. Looked good though. Removal was also terrible for me. :yell::yell::yell::yell::yell:




It is single stage red, and it`s chalky and oxidized. Usually these paints can be brought back wonderfully.



Sometimes in these cases a reversed order is the right approach. Remove the oxidation with an AIO, such as Klasse/Carlack, etc., THEN polish the paint to perfection. In some instances a very oily product like Megs #7 can help too, Smear a thick film on and leave overnight. Then hit it with for example #80 first, to see the corrective abilities, then if needed switch to a more aggressive product.



Bilt Hamber Auto Balm is a wonderful oxidation remover which can protect the paint extremely well.

[imported_MCA]

As what Bence said, your 3000gt is single-stage paint. You will need to remove the chalk-like, dead paint...i really like and recommend Klasse AIO or werkstat prime strong for this step. For the polishing stages, I use meg`s 83 and 80 polishes because they are heavy in oils (its the only time I use these old school polishes). Huge warning: You will go through a ton of towels and pads if you are removing oxidation and polishing single-stage paint...dont get discouraged when the pile of towels/pads start adding up.

[Nick VR4]

What color is the 3000?



The flex will do the job for sure. Are you open to any brand? How about protection? is this a daily driver?



It`s Caracas Red. Open to any brand. As for protection, I haven`t though about that yet... first I`d just like to see how I can bring the paint back to a gloss.

It was a daily driver for 7 years, but I retired it recently (bought an 06 GTO). I planned on building it into an E85 monster but don`t have the space and time, so I want to give it a thorough detail and sell it.




It is single stage red, and it`s chalky and oxidized. Usually these paints can be brought back wonderfully.



Sometimes in these cases a reversed order is the right approach. Remove the oxidation with an AIO, such as Klasse/Carlack, etc., THEN polish the paint to perfection. In some instances a very oily product like Megs #7 can help too, Smear a thick film on and leave overnight. Then hit it with for example #80 first, to see the corrective abilities, then if needed switch to a more aggressive product.



Bilt Hamber Auto Balm is a wonderful oxidation remover which can protect the paint extremely well.



Good description, chalkyish, not really oxidized yet but could get to there if I don`t take care of it now. I will take a look at those Megs products.



So really the product doesn`t matter too much, just needs a good cut and polish?



Another question, is the Flex beginner friendly?



Really appreciate the replies.

[Thomas Dekany]

Flex is friendly with micro fiber pads and softer foam pads. Once product starts to build up in the wool, it will start pulling - at that point (hopefully before) you want to clean the pad or reach for another clean pad.



Stiffer foam like orange and yellow is the opposite for me. Unprimed it wants to pull, but once there is enough product, you`ll be fine.

[imported_Bence]

Tomi, it`s strange that the Balm was dead so soon. Did you contact the BH guys? Sure, it can feel like almost bare paint relatively soon, but its film formers are not assembled to work like a wax, so it is truly completely different. My jar is starting to dry out a bit, so removal is indeed a bit harder, but I do 2 panels max and remove it basically immediately.



It`s not the easiest product, but I experience it as a characteristics, and not a difficulty. Finis Wax however, lasts for ages and has the same bright hi-definition look.



Nick, red color absorbs the widest spectrum of light, that`s why it ages/oxidizes so quickly. So use stable products on your car, and use them often. Oily products are recommended, but not only polishes but also LSPs, like the old Megs #16, oily glazes such as ClearKote`s RMG and VM. For maintenance and general protection OCW is also good as it has a nice UV filter in it - but remember, that the true UV protection is very minor as waxes can build layers in the 20-30 nanometer range, which is THIN!



Of course, you can try the newest LSPs as well and see how they perform. And because Caracas Red is a classic, racy red, it looks best when it`s wet, but also reflective as well. Case for a carnauba which has been enhanced with a smartly selected synthetic. Like for example Victoria Wax Chaos.



Choices, choices... The LSP list is endless... So polish it meticulously, apply a good LSP and don`t let the wax wear away, because the oxidation returns fairly soon on these old paints.

[togwt]

This has worked for me when the clear coat becomes ‘dull’ by using harsh (abrasive) or if acidic car washing solutions as used in ‘touch less’ car washing systems, or from industrial airborne pollutants compromising the clear coat allowing the suns heat to dry out (oxidize) the paint.



The clear coat layer is exmetremely thin (1.5 – 2.0 Mils) it is not a solid coating and is to some extent porous, the top most layer of clear coat paint contains ultra violet (UV) protection. Oxygen interacts with substances in the paint layer (i.e. mica flakes as in metallic paints) and trigger the oxidation reaction. It`s just that the amount of oxidation taking place is minimal in comparison to single stage paint.



Clear-coat dulling has the appearance of oxidation, i.e. paint surface has little or no gloss and may exhibit a slightly ‘grey’ colour but can usually be rectified without the need to re-paint.



This can be brought about by abrasive washing which simply dulls the paint; touch less carwash washing, which uses an acid that dulls the clear-coat and / or simply from exposure to industrial fallout and UVR, etc.



• Wash the paint surface and dry thoroughly

• Clean the paint with chemical paint cleaner (Autoglym Paint Renovator or Klasse All-In-One) using an orange foam pad at speed #4, this may take 2-3 applications

• Apply a paint surface protection

For highly oxidized paint try the following; this may help to eliminate some of the oxidation-

• Wash the paint surface and dry thoroughly

• Clean the paint with chemical paint cleaner (Autoglym Paint Renovator or Klasse All-In-One) using an orange foam pad at speed #4, this may take 2-3 or more applications

• Once the oxidation has been removed use a decontamination system (C.Quartz IronX)

• Apply an oil rich product to stabilize the paints binder system (3M Imperial Hand Glaze) apply a thick coat and allow to dwell time for 12-24 hours before buffing, repeat as necessary until surface has an ‘oily’ sheen.

• Remove residue with 1:10 solution of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water

Finally apply a coating (Opti-Coat™) a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a semi-permanent continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coating finish.

[HLxDrummer]

I have a red VR4 as well (1G, though) and parts of the car are becoming oxidized but I am always afraid of buffing it all out and getting to primer... The impression I am getting here is that I can use a cleaner to remove oxidation without actually polishing/removing paint? If so that would be awesome!



Also, I know clear is only a few mile thick, but what about base coats? Similar?



Lastly, if you ever need mechanical help with your VR4 hit me up!

[Nick VR4]

This has worked for me when the clear coat becomes ‘dull’ by using harsh (abrasive) or if acidic car washing solutions as used in ‘touch less’ car washing systems, or from industrial airborne pollutants compromising the clear coat allowing the suns heat to dry out (oxidize) the paint.



The clear coat layer is exmetremely thin (1.5 – 2.0 Mils) it is not a solid coating and is to some extent porous, the top most layer of clear coat paint contains ultra violet (UV) protection. Oxygen interacts with substances in the paint layer (i.e. mica flakes as in metallic paints) and trigger the oxidation reaction. It`s just that the amount of oxidation taking place is minimal in comparison to single stage paint.



Clear-coat dulling has the appearance of oxidation, i.e. paint surface has little or no gloss and may exhibit a slightly ‘grey’ colour but can usually be rectified without the need to re-paint.



This can be brought about by abrasive washing which simply dulls the paint; touch less carwash washing, which uses an acid that dulls the clear-coat and / or simply from exposure to industrial fallout and UVR, etc.



• Wash the paint surface and dry thoroughly

• Clean the paint with chemical paint cleaner (Autoglym Paint Renovator or Klasse All-In-One) using an orange foam pad at speed #4, this may take 2-3 applications

• Apply a paint surface protection

For highly oxidized paint try the following; this may help to eliminate some of the oxidation-

• Wash the paint surface and dry thoroughly

• Clean the paint with chemical paint cleaner (Autoglym Paint Renovator or Klasse All-In-One) using an orange foam pad at speed #4, this may take 2-3 or more applications

• Once the oxidation has been removed use a decontamination system (C.Quartz IronX)

• Apply an oil rich product to stabilize the paints binder system (3M Imperial Hand Glaze) apply a thick coat and allow to dwell time for 12-24 hours before buffing, repeat as necessary until surface has an ‘oily’ sheen.

• Remove residue with 1:10 solution of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water

Finally apply a coating (Opti-Coat™) a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a semi-permanent continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coating finish.



Thanks for the detailed explanation, helps a lot. Thomas basically said the same thing and clarified a few things via PM.




Tomi, it`s strange that the Balm was dead so soon. Did you contact the BH guys? Sure, it can feel like almost bare paint relatively soon, but its film formers are not assembled to work like a wax, so it is truly completely different. My jar is starting to dry out a bit, so removal is indeed a bit harder, but I do 2 panels max and remove it basically immediately.



It`s not the easiest product, but I experience it as a characteristics, and not a difficulty. Finis Wax however, lasts for ages and has the same bright hi-definition look.



Nick, red color absorbs the widest spectrum of light, that`s why it ages/oxidizes so quickly. So use stable products on your car, and use them often. Oily products are recommended, but not only polishes but also LSPs, like the old Megs #16, oily glazes such as ClearKote`s RMG and VM. For maintenance and general protection OCW is also good as it has a nice UV filter in it - but remember, that the true UV protection is very minor as waxes can build layers in the 20-30 nanometer range, which is THIN!



Of course, you can try the newest LSPs as well and see how they perform. And because Caracas Red is a classic, racy red, it looks best when it`s wet, but also reflective as well. Case for a carnauba which has been enhanced with a smartly selected synthetic. Like for example Victoria Wax Chaos.



Choices, choices... The LSP list is endless... So polish it meticulously, apply a good LSP and don`t let the wax wear away, because the oxidation returns fairly soon on these old paints.

Thanks for the info. Seems like the oily polishes will help.


I have a red VR4 as well (1G, though) and parts of the car are becoming oxidized but I am always afraid of buffing it all out and getting to primer... The impression I am getting here is that I can use a cleaner to remove oxidation without actually polishing/removing paint? If so that would be awesome!



Also, I know clear is only a few mile thick, but what about base coats? Similar?



Lastly, if you ever need mechanical help with your VR4 hit me up!



HLxDrummer, you`re on 3si right? Pretty sure I remember your nickname. I thought no polishing also, but that is not the case. You will have to polish with a good AIO like the Klasse product mentioned.

Unfortunately I`ll be selling the VR4 once I have the paint corrected, no time or space for it right now. Plan on picking up a 1G in the future :)

[HLxDrummer]

Yep, that`s me. And I completely understand mine will probably be parked for the next few years during school anyhow.

[Nick VR4]

Time to bump this thread. I finally purchased a Flex 3401 (Craigslist special $200).



I`ll be purchasing the AIO by Klasse (seems to have been recommended a lot here) and one of the Megs oily polishes, not decided yet.



I am just not sure on what pads I should use for the project?

And should I get the smaller diameter backing plate for the Flex so I can run smaller pads?

From what I`ve read thus far, the foam wool pad and orange pad would be best for removing the oxidization.