Johnny 5
02-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Hey guys, I could really use a lot of assistance on this one. I detailed my friend`s car this weekend, basically as a freebie (I was going to get a bottle of rum as a barter, for the cost of products so to speak), a new to her 1991 Storm in Flash Yellow (I believe 35u / WA9959), 200k miles. She didn`t have the rum in hand, but bought my dinner afterward. It looked good at dusk, night, but during the afternoon she did remark about the peachy tinge, something I didn`t really pick up. The next day, she is totally distraught, almost brought to tears, cursing. She thinks it looks horrible, with also the issue of fading. However, it was only after countless more emails, getting Avi from CarPro to assist (I was really wondering about the Iron-X; and he was very supportive in general, something I am quite appreciative of), that I learned that there was a fresh coat of NuFinish applied to the car. I had just days before the detail learned as much as I could about the car`s history from the owner, never seeing it until the day of, and I was convinced by our conversation that it was bare, that I didn`t need to strip anything with chemical cleaner or my CG citrus or anything. That even if there was a several month old wax on there, that my clay should essentially take care of the remnants. However, before this point, we were thinking that I had made some horrible mistake(s), and maybe that is still the case. Earlier that day, I had already offered to do all I can to fix it myself, and even told her that if she didn`t trust me, I would pay towards a paint correction from the top guy in my area. I admit that I saw the bottle of NuFinish in a bucket in her trunk, and she may even have mentioned something about its use, but it obviously didn`t register with me due to my pointed and previous conversation with her by phone (the LSP was really the main point of it, explaining the possible need for stripping, besides trying to know more about the paint itself). She considered me lucky that I didn`t take any money for this, but the fact is, I`m not sure if I would have acted much differently at all, or offered anything better had I taken any money at all. I am trying to do this right. I haven`t seen the car before or after the detail.
The thinnest paint was at the very, very small panel between the rear windshield and large spoiler, and the hood. I refused to even touch the rear deck portion, and went very lightly, very carefully on the hood, leaving many of the etches, scratches, RIDS, still there. The rest of the panels had something to work with, roughly 100 from the thinner areas, to roughly 130 at thicker areas. This is only going by memory though, I was just trying to get a general sense of what I had at each panel. The hood was around 100 on average maybe, getting down to 90 or even below near the passenger side, near windshield. So the product list, process:
Griot`s car wash, both in foam gun and buckets
Sonax FE
Meguiar`s degreaser on tires and wells
Highline II PTG
Iron-X
DI fine clay (actually the firmest of my clay collection)
ONR clay lube
ONR, Meg`s APC on door jambs, and badges
3M general purpose adhesive remover on a couple of tar spots at wheel wells, and a few jamb stickers
KAIO for plastic trim pieces
M205 polish on green pad, PC 7424XP, light pressure, never past speed 3, for the hood
HD Uno polish on rest of the car, green pad, Flex 3401 VRG, second pass with only weight of machine, never past speed 3.5 the entire time.
PlastX on exterior lights
Opti-Bond on tires
HD Poxy on anything yellow on the outside, blue pad, 7424xp, sp 2 on metal, sp 1 on plastic.
Meguiar`s D120 glass cleaner with Griot`s polypropylene towels
I never got any yellow transfer save for one of the tar spots after going to town with the 3M on the plastic well. I got some black transfer when polishing the side view mirrors, post KAIO cleaning.
So both parties involved are stressed. It turns out she didn`t even really care to detail it! (Can you imagine hearing that, anyway . . .) It was a mutual friend who contacted me about giving my info to her, and I replied that I`ll just call her up, take the initiative to be a great guy, help her out. Anyway, it`s done so whatever.
Now, the peachy color is everywhere, I am told. Even the roof, but my little spray bottle of Iron-X was out before I got there, so I didn`t spray it. I am just about certain we didn`t rub any of this up there, but I almost wish we had, because then this might point out the Iron-X as the source, just in my mind that is. It was not done in direct sunlight, we were two people rubbing the product after letting the spray set for a little while, and the worst spots turned blood purple instantaneously. You might understand why I was thinking Iron-X due to the hue described by owner.
She is convinced some unwanted chemical reaction had occurred. I told her that I`ve used all of these products on a number of cars, save for the Iron-X on just a couple of occasions. Avi is led to believe the only way to fix this is by polishing and resealing. So then I went to describe to the owner, if we decided that I was to do this (and it`s also my guess as to how a pro would do it), my plan of attack: I bet the right way would be to remeasure all the panels, look for thicker areas where there is problematic fade/peach; of these candidate test spots, choose a test spot that is less conspicuous, and start polishing down, repeatedly remeasuring. Then if and when the paint is corrected, we can get an idea of how much penetration there is of at least the hue; how much paint removal was required.
1. But now I`m wondering, that NuFinish stuff, which I don`t really know wtheck it really is, did it perhaps absorb some of the Iron-X fallout? This stuff, it has certain fillers yes?
2. Could I have permanently stained the clearcoat by lightly polishing some Iron-X fallout, whether as embedded into the NuFinish or not?
3. For the second issue of "fade": Does the NuFinish darken the paint? (Even if it did, I`m pretty sure she is convinced it was different beforehand, but maybe it just added to the fire, so to speak)
4. If not the NuFinish for any of the above, could it be any other product that I used that either changed the hue or "fade", with this particular car? Am I barking up the right tree here?
5. Did extensive decontamination possibly just make the paint lighter?
6. She is convinced that the "fade" is bad, because the color compared to the jambs is all the more mismatched. But is it possible that the lighter shade is simply the more accurate color, post-UV oxidation or something? For perspective, the dash has cracks that go all the way through, front to back, and a number of them from what I recall.
7. Last but not least, How should I proceed both with vehicle/owner? I had offered (before I even realized there was NuFinish), to give it multiple washings of CG citrus at wax stripping strength. She said at first that she is hesitant to let me touch it, and later that I probably won`t touch it. (But anyway, if put in my hands, should I try reactivating Iron-X or something more dramatic- I`m sure that would turn my friend`s hair gray, and I`m almost loath to even bring it up; no wait, Avi told me it will most likely need polishing/resealing.)
I am sure there might be much more info you want from me, for you to better help me. Forgive the long post, but I`m sure you guys understand, devil in the details.
My sincere gratitude,
Johnny 5
Pics
1: only before shot of my own, the crazy Iron-X fallout; everywhere else had moderate, or much less fallout.
2-4: a few after pics at around nightfall, poor lighting
Rest are by owner, previous "before" shots
5: February 20
6: January 28
By owner, post detail
7: change in hue
8: from above
9: front hood
10: rear hatch (unpolished)
11: side view
1
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoIronX1.jpg
2
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoHood.jpg
3
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoRearRight.jpg
4
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoRearLeft.jpg
5
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/1_Feb20-2012.jpg
6
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/2_Jan28-2012.jpg
7
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/3_today-changeinhue.jpg
8
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/4_today-fromabove.jpg
9
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/5_fronthood.jpg
10
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/6_Rearhatchandspoilerplastic.jpg
11
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/7_sideview.jpg
The thinnest paint was at the very, very small panel between the rear windshield and large spoiler, and the hood. I refused to even touch the rear deck portion, and went very lightly, very carefully on the hood, leaving many of the etches, scratches, RIDS, still there. The rest of the panels had something to work with, roughly 100 from the thinner areas, to roughly 130 at thicker areas. This is only going by memory though, I was just trying to get a general sense of what I had at each panel. The hood was around 100 on average maybe, getting down to 90 or even below near the passenger side, near windshield. So the product list, process:
Griot`s car wash, both in foam gun and buckets
Sonax FE
Meguiar`s degreaser on tires and wells
Highline II PTG
Iron-X
DI fine clay (actually the firmest of my clay collection)
ONR clay lube
ONR, Meg`s APC on door jambs, and badges
3M general purpose adhesive remover on a couple of tar spots at wheel wells, and a few jamb stickers
KAIO for plastic trim pieces
M205 polish on green pad, PC 7424XP, light pressure, never past speed 3, for the hood
HD Uno polish on rest of the car, green pad, Flex 3401 VRG, second pass with only weight of machine, never past speed 3.5 the entire time.
PlastX on exterior lights
Opti-Bond on tires
HD Poxy on anything yellow on the outside, blue pad, 7424xp, sp 2 on metal, sp 1 on plastic.
Meguiar`s D120 glass cleaner with Griot`s polypropylene towels
I never got any yellow transfer save for one of the tar spots after going to town with the 3M on the plastic well. I got some black transfer when polishing the side view mirrors, post KAIO cleaning.
So both parties involved are stressed. It turns out she didn`t even really care to detail it! (Can you imagine hearing that, anyway . . .) It was a mutual friend who contacted me about giving my info to her, and I replied that I`ll just call her up, take the initiative to be a great guy, help her out. Anyway, it`s done so whatever.
Now, the peachy color is everywhere, I am told. Even the roof, but my little spray bottle of Iron-X was out before I got there, so I didn`t spray it. I am just about certain we didn`t rub any of this up there, but I almost wish we had, because then this might point out the Iron-X as the source, just in my mind that is. It was not done in direct sunlight, we were two people rubbing the product after letting the spray set for a little while, and the worst spots turned blood purple instantaneously. You might understand why I was thinking Iron-X due to the hue described by owner.
She is convinced some unwanted chemical reaction had occurred. I told her that I`ve used all of these products on a number of cars, save for the Iron-X on just a couple of occasions. Avi is led to believe the only way to fix this is by polishing and resealing. So then I went to describe to the owner, if we decided that I was to do this (and it`s also my guess as to how a pro would do it), my plan of attack: I bet the right way would be to remeasure all the panels, look for thicker areas where there is problematic fade/peach; of these candidate test spots, choose a test spot that is less conspicuous, and start polishing down, repeatedly remeasuring. Then if and when the paint is corrected, we can get an idea of how much penetration there is of at least the hue; how much paint removal was required.
1. But now I`m wondering, that NuFinish stuff, which I don`t really know wtheck it really is, did it perhaps absorb some of the Iron-X fallout? This stuff, it has certain fillers yes?
2. Could I have permanently stained the clearcoat by lightly polishing some Iron-X fallout, whether as embedded into the NuFinish or not?
3. For the second issue of "fade": Does the NuFinish darken the paint? (Even if it did, I`m pretty sure she is convinced it was different beforehand, but maybe it just added to the fire, so to speak)
4. If not the NuFinish for any of the above, could it be any other product that I used that either changed the hue or "fade", with this particular car? Am I barking up the right tree here?
5. Did extensive decontamination possibly just make the paint lighter?
6. She is convinced that the "fade" is bad, because the color compared to the jambs is all the more mismatched. But is it possible that the lighter shade is simply the more accurate color, post-UV oxidation or something? For perspective, the dash has cracks that go all the way through, front to back, and a number of them from what I recall.
7. Last but not least, How should I proceed both with vehicle/owner? I had offered (before I even realized there was NuFinish), to give it multiple washings of CG citrus at wax stripping strength. She said at first that she is hesitant to let me touch it, and later that I probably won`t touch it. (But anyway, if put in my hands, should I try reactivating Iron-X or something more dramatic- I`m sure that would turn my friend`s hair gray, and I`m almost loath to even bring it up; no wait, Avi told me it will most likely need polishing/resealing.)
I am sure there might be much more info you want from me, for you to better help me. Forgive the long post, but I`m sure you guys understand, devil in the details.
My sincere gratitude,
Johnny 5
Pics
1: only before shot of my own, the crazy Iron-X fallout; everywhere else had moderate, or much less fallout.
2-4: a few after pics at around nightfall, poor lighting
Rest are by owner, previous "before" shots
5: February 20
6: January 28
By owner, post detail
7: change in hue
8: from above
9: front hood
10: rear hatch (unpolished)
11: side view
1
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoIronX1.jpg
2
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoHood.jpg
3
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoRearRight.jpg
4
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/GeoRearLeft.jpg
5
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/1_Feb20-2012.jpg
6
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/2_Jan28-2012.jpg
7
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/3_today-changeinhue.jpg
8
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/4_today-fromabove.jpg
9
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/5_fronthood.jpg
10
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/6_Rearhatchandspoilerplastic.jpg
11
http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p604/Johnny5319/7_sideview.jpg