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togwt
07-20-2011, 08:50 AM
Layering Waxes



Most solvents will strip subsequent layers, but remember that you are not applying neat solvent to the last layer; but a wax / solvent emulsion. It’s a diluted form of its original strength and won`t strip the wax layer like neat solvent. If you apply a low-solvent product on top of one that has already set-up (i.e. the solvents have evaporated) you can increase its density (up to a point) two to three applications are usually considered optimum



One thing that will negate the applied product density is lack of clarity, the base coat (that contains the vehicle’s colour) is covered / protected by a clear coat of urethane paint, which as well as providing protection is clear to enable the paint colour to show through and provide the colour with depth.



The viscosity of the previous layer requires more solvent to significantly melt away than the next applied wax layer can contain The carrier system allows the product to fill and level the paint film surface to produce a flat surface (this flat level surface is more pronounced with polymers due to their Covalent (molecular) alignment characteristics). This level surface optimises the paint film surface`s desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)



I would suggest you apply on top of one that has already set-up (i.e. the solvents have evaporated) you can increase its density (up to a point) two to three applications are usually considered optimum Spit shining is used for ‘layering’ Organic wax (although in this case the `spit` used is cold distilled water) to produce a ‘depth of shine’ providing you take the necessary precautions to prevent the solvents both re-liquefying and removing the previous wax layers.



Another ‘layering’ technique- apply a liquid Carnauba wax (liquid wax usually contains polymer and solvents) and allow to set-up (usually 1-2 hours, do a smear test to endure that its dry.

Then a apply to a paste Carnauba wax; allow the solvents to evaporate for 2-4 hours, and finally buff surface with a 100% cotton towel to produce jetting (a ‘wet-look’ shine)



Spit Shining



Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted. One of the problems with ‘layering’ some waxes and polymers is that they tend to occlude (become less opaque) as the thickness increases



The viscosity of the previous layer requires more solvent to significantly melt away than the next applied wax layer can contain The carrier system allows the product to fill and level the paint film surface to produce a flat surface (this flat level surface is more pronounced with polymers due to their Covalent (molecular) alignment characteristics). This level surface optimises the paint film surface`s desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)

I think a better description of this process is ‘increasing the density’ as oppose to multi-layers. As for increased durability in my experience it does very little if anything to improve it. I think most proponents of this process are looking for aesthetics as opposed to increasing the durability of a wax.



Usually, a wax with a high solvent content will remove the previous layer, so use a Carnauba that is not formulated with a high solvent content A solvent will have the potential to strip subsequent layers, but remember that you are not applying neat solvent to the last layer - but a wax and solvent blend. So it is only a fraction of its original strength and won`t strip the wax layer like neat solvent. One of the very important nuances of layering is to use very little applied pressure and friction when applying subsequent layers as they will have a negative impact on wax thickness



What you are doing is neutralizing the solvent so that it doesn`t remove the previous layer. One of the very important nuances of layering is to use very little applied pressure and friction when applying subsequent layers as they will have a negative impact on wax thickness Usually a spit shined surface is slicker, smoother, and has different beading characteristics; with even smaller tighter water beads. The durability is about the same (or slightly better) and although spit shining is very time consuming, the improved depth of shine and glossy appearance is worth it



Victoria Wax Pre-Wax Cleaner - for optimum results, this product must be used before applying this paste waxes for the first time. A unique non-abrasive formulation for regular and clear-coated paint finishes. Use as a foundation paint preparation, it gently cleans the paintwork and helps to create a perfect bond between the finish and the wax and create depth of shine.



Victoria Concours Wax - apply a thin coat, gently work it in and let it sit until tacky, then using a 100% cotton micro fibre towel gently remove everything to expose a finish ready for the wax. If needed, repeat cleaning action until all contaminates, grime and foreign products are removed. Remember, the cleansing and prepping process should only be done before the wax is applied for the first time and there after only when needed.



Using a damp applicator and cold (almost ice) distilled water in a fine mist spray bottle neutralizes any solvents in the newly applied layer; the water should be cold, using ice cold water after applying a wax will harden the wax quicker making the shine deeper and help the new wax adhere to the finish, working until the water/ wax solution disappears. The reason for using a damp applicator is to neutralize the solvents as much as possible, and to avoid the thin coats of wax sticking to the applicator, this enables the wax to build thin, fine coats. Spray fine mists of cold (almost ice) distilled water to a single panel and then apply a light Carnauba wax to the paint surface.



Always apply extremely thin layers using a very light pressure when spit shining, Wipe it onto a small work area and continue wiping until most of the wax disappears. Mist lightly as needed, keeping a few water droplets on the surface. Move to the next work area and repeat. After you do the final area you’ll have a surface with many spots of hazed wax. Lightly mist an area with the very cold distilled water - 1/2 hood or door - and lightly buff with a MF towel. Turn the towel frequently, when the towel becomes too damp switch to a new towel.



When you spray very cold water on a Carnauba wax layer that has been allowed to outgas (i.e. the solvents that make up its carrier system have evaporated) it reduces the wax surface temperature to the point that the next applied waxes carrier solvents do not dilute the previously applied wax and it forms a semi-hard coat.



• Allow each subsequent Carnauba waxes solvents to outgas before applying more layers. Spit shining allows definitive layers, as opposed to a thick coat of wax that would result if the solvents dissolve the wax layer that they are applied to.

• After 24 hours you can repeat the procedure, using cold (almost ice) distilled water and Pinnacle Crystal Mist (a low solvent quick detail (QD) each coat applied will increase the surface depth of shine with five or six coats being optimal

• Allow the radiation heat to ‘sweat’ the wax and then buff with a 100% cotton micro fibre towel.

Also be aware that the both the product and the foam pad may be non-abrasive, but application pressure if not kept to an absolute minimum and using use a very light and even pressure, may re-introduce surface marring and/or removal of the previously applied product by friction.



Note: there are other Carnauba waxes that can be successfully used in this process, the products cited are my personal choice



Information resource- based on information in a post by NickT on Autopia.org and the original method used to shine RAF uniform dress shoes






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Accumulator
07-20-2011, 01:09 PM
..

Another ‘layering’ technique- apply a liquid Carnauba wax (liquid wax usually contains polymer and solvents) and allow to set-up (usually 1-2 hours, do a smear test to endure that its dry.

Then a apply to a paste Carnauba wax; allow the solvents to evaporate for 2-4 hours, and finally buff surface with a 100% cotton towel to produce jetting (a ‘wet-look’ shine)



I`ve never understood how that works, and I never noticed any benefit from doing it :think: I think I first read about it in a Griot`s "Handbook" and I tried it more than once before I finally gave up; as best I could tell, the initial wax application simply covered the paint, creating a barrier of wax residue, and the subsequent one never even contacted the paint because it just sat on top of the (now dried) liquid.



Am I missing something here or is it just another case of "YMMV"?



Oh, and the above is by no means an :argue I`m right there with you on spitshining and also on how some waxes *do* layer despite their solvent content (and some waxes simply don`t).

Bill D
07-20-2011, 01:12 PM
Old timers might recall 4DSC`s spit shine technique involving spit shining multiple layers with sprtizing refrigerated water, or in my use of Souveran, Crystal Mist. I still do it once in a blue moon for the pleasure of it--especially on the Caddy, if it makes to a show one of these days.

Accumulator
07-20-2011, 01:54 PM
Yeah, both NickT and 4DSC were good guys, miss `em both.

imported_animes2k
07-21-2011, 06:20 PM
I guess I`ve never seen the benefit of spit shining. As in, never actually witnessed a significant difference with my own eyes.



Now, my BOOTS, on the other hand, it`s obvious that spit shining builds up a nice thick, mirror-finish coating. But I think shoe polish and carnauba wax are significantly different products. And on the boots, occluding the surface is a net positive.

Accumulator
07-22-2011, 10:54 AM
I guess I`ve never seen the benefit of spit shining. As in, never actually witnessed a significant difference with my own eyes...



I think it`s paint/product/whatever, ?who-knows?-factor dependent. And IMO it`s usually not worth doing even when it does make a diff.



But it seems that everybody who likes Zymol`s Vintage says that it`s worth it when using that particular wax.

togwt
07-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Victoria for `spit shine` and Zymol Vintage Glaze is the most optically clear Carnauba wax I’ve used, applied with bare hands; it’s got to be seen to be believed



But with waxes and these methods it`s so far into the realms of `subjectivity’ that different people will ‘see’ different results and some, no difference at all

togwt
07-22-2011, 12:11 PM
I`ve never understood how that works, and I never noticed any benefit from doing it :think: I think I first read about it in a Griot`s "Handbook" and I tried it more than once before I finally gave up; as best I could tell, the initial wax application simply covered the paint, creating a barrier of wax residue, and the subsequent one never even contacted the paint because it just sat on top of the (now dried) liquid.



Am I missing something here or is it just another case of "YMMV"?



Oh, and the above is by no means an :argue I`m right there with you on spitshining and also on how some waxes *do* layer despite their solvent content (and some waxes simply don`t).



Your expression `Your mileage may vary` seems appropriate here.



And as far as :argue; constructive criticism and level headed discussion is what forums should be about

Accumulator
07-22-2011, 01:31 PM
And as far as :argue; constructive criticism and level headed discussion is what forums should be about



Yeah..but you know how things can get lost in translation over the internet.




Victoria for `spit shine` and Zymol Vintage Glaze is the most optically clear Carnauba wax I’ve used, applied with bare hands; it’s got to be seen to be believed



Some folks get very critical of those two waxes because of their cost, but when people (certain people, whose opinions I value ;) ) say they really are special I tend to believe it. And it seems like everybody who uses those waxes employs the spit shining.

imported_animes2k
07-22-2011, 07:39 PM
I used Concours a few years back and did very much like it. It shed water very nicely and stayed clean unlike most carnaubas I`ve used and I "layered" it for six weeks, a coat per week. It WAS a beautiful wax, but honestly not worth the money, imo. I tried spit shining, but just don`t know if it made a difference. I just don`t know the chemistry well enough to feel confident that it actually didn`t dissolve the existing wax.

Legacy
07-22-2011, 08:27 PM
Yeah..but you know how things can get lost in translation over the internet.







Some folks get very critical of those two waxes because of their cost, but when people (certain people, whose opinions I value ;) ) say they really are special I tend to believe it. And it seems like everybody who uses those waxes employs the spit shining.



I`ve tried spit shining with Vintage and don`t think it`s worth the effort..or with any other carnuba for that matter.