newbie... new paint has white spots

[RicoSwe]

I just had some painting done on my restoration project (1965 Porsche 356C). The paint color is dark blue, with color coat and clear coat. I just got a chance to clean and check the work and found a problem...



The new paint has white spots, apparently in the color coat. It looks like a mist of spots. The spots are concentrated in some places, like around openings in a bumper where the paint is slightly thicker.



I have photos but have not successfully uploaded them here (IE and Firefox both fail to upload to Autopia... I`ll research that).



Any ideas about what could have caused this? I`m not sure, but I am thinking it`s not dust from in the paint. Could it be a paint problem? An application error?



The paint is a top end German water based paint (California VOC limits).



Help would be appreciated. I meet with the shop owner tomorrow.



Thanks -- Richard

[(901)]

Sounds like a classic case of overspray



Has this car been anywhere near a house/building that has been painted?



If not, the only thing I could think of is that someone was priming a car and yours was close by



Good luck with your meeting tommorow



Flash



PS..Are these white spots on your trim/rubber? :shocked

[C. Charles Hahn]

Well, I suppose it`s possible the base hadn`t fully flashed before they sprayed the clear coat, but that`s just a total guess. We`ll really need to see pics to make more educated guesses.

[JohnKleven]

It`s also possible that the clearcoat fisheyed when sprayed, and when they polished the paint, polishing compound was left inside the fisheyes.

[David Fermani]

The new paint has white spots, apparently in the color coat. It looks like a mist of spots. The spots are concentrated in some places, like around openings in a bumper where the paint is slightly thicker.





How sure are you that`s it in the color (base) coat? If so, maybe the painter didn`t clean out his gun or mixing cup? Can you feel the spots?

[David Fermani]

Well, I suppose it`s possible the base hadn`t fully flashed before they sprayed the clear coat, but that`s just a total guess.



With waterborne finishes, the base needs to fully flash before putting a solvent clear over it. And, you can usually see it pretty distinctly. Goes from milky to clear. It actually requires more drying time compared to conventional solvent bases. I don`t think if it wasn`t allowed to dry fully, white mist wouldn`t be what would happen. IMHO

[RicoSwe]

The spots are not in the clear coat it appears. There is no cloudiness.



And (hopefully) attached is one picture. (I`m trying to learn this forum`s photo upload method. I`ve got one uploaded to my profile/photo album and two others will follow. Apparently as a new newbie, uploads show up slowly but eventually.)



I`ll report back after my meeting with the painter/shop owner!



http://www.autopia.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=628&catid=member&imageuser=68969



edit:

Image is not showing. Here is the direct URL:

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=628&catid=member&imageuser=68969

[nyakerz]

edit:

Image is not showing. Here is the direct URL:

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=628&catid=member&imageuser=68969



http://www.autopia.org/gallery/files/6/8/9/6/9/csc_0164_454462.jpg

[C. Charles Hahn]

With waterborne finishes, the base needs to fully flash before putting a solvent clear over it. And, you can usually see it pretty distinctly. Goes from milky to clear. It actually requires more drying time compared to conventional solvent bases. I don`t think if it wasn`t allowed to dry fully, white mist wouldn`t be what would happen. IMHO



Yeah, I knew that about the base needing to fully flash, but as I said that was a total guess on my part. My experience with waterborne refinishing is limited thus far so I haven`t seen how it reacts if buried under clear prematurely.

[(901)]

Just for fun, try running a claybar across that area :yo:

[RicoSwe]

I`m happy to report that the shop owner agreed to redo the paint. Glad he`s standing behind his work.



He said that he thinks the problem is pickup of polishing compound (in pores??) in the clear coat. He said he`s pretty sure the spots were not there when he finished and turned over the car. He also said that the clear coat was another paint manufacturer than the color coat. He plans to use another clear coat manufacturer.



(The spots were there before I washed the car yesterday... I thought they were dust and would wash away. I did no polishing, etc. that would`ve introduced anything into "pores".)



Re clay bar -

The surface is very smooth; no roughness, bumps, etc. It feels like brand new clear coat -- slick and smooth.



I`m thinking the problem is due to some reaction between the water based color coat and the solvent based clear coat, although the spots do not show up in one area (driver`s side top of fender). All other new paint work has the spots.



two more photos:

If these were larger, the spots would be easier to see, but you can see them here still.



Hood area --

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/files/6/8/9/6/9/dsc_0168.jpg



Rear bumper --

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/files/6/8/9/6/9/dsc_0171.jpg





Thanks for the quick replies and help! Very appreciated.

[David Fermani]

Ouch! He`s going to taking most of the paint off of the front portion of the hood and nose. Therefore, that means that 2/3`s of the car is going to need to be refinished(cleared) too because there isn`t a break line anywhere. The front nose ties into both quarter panels. If you think your current issue is bad, you better make sure he`s going to be doing this or he`s going to be doing an inferior repair.

[RicoSwe]

...2/3`s of the car is going to need to be refinished(cleared) too because there isn`t a break line anywhere. The front nose ties into both quarter panels. If you think your current issue is bad, you better make sure he`s going to be doing this or he`s going to be doing an inferior repair.



Yeah, this has been a consideration from the start of choosing a shop to do the work. I got five bids plus references. (So far) the color match has been very good; that was the main issue I was concerned with. I chose to live with a partial repaint. If problems arise later, I can consider a full body painting.

[RicoSwe]

Reporting back on outcome --



The shop owner has finished the repainting. He reported that the problem was in the color coat and that he suspected the clear coat was applied before the color coat had flashed enough.



Future color match / fading, etc. will reveal themselves with time... I went into this knowing I was not getting a full repaint. So far it`s OK with me.