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Dan
05-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Bird poo does not destroy your car`s paint... at least not by itself — Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/04/bird-poo-does-not-destroy-your-cars-paint-at-least-not-by-it/)




New research from Autoglym, the UK`s leading car care experts, suggests that the familiar sight of car bodywork `etched` by bird droppings are not the result of any corrosive property in the deposit, as is commonly believed. In fact, damage instead results from the paint lacquer contracting upon cooling and moulding to the uneven texture of the hardened deposit.



As paint lacquer warms – in the direct summer sunshine for example – it softens and expands. At the same time, that heat dries and hardens any bird droppings on the surface. Autoglym`s researchers discovered that as the paint lacquer cools, overnight for example, it contracts, hardens and moulds around the texture of the bird dropping. To the naked eye, this moulding at a microscopic level appears as dulled or etched paintwork. The light`s reflection is interrupted by the imperfect surface, unlike the undamaged paint surrounding it which gives a clearer reflection.



Autoglym`s tests with strongly acidic, neutral and strongly alkali bird dropping substitutes highlighted negligible differences in the damage caused. However, differences in paint damage were noted when the substitute bird deposits had varying degrees of grain-to-liquid content. A grainier texture caused greater light distortion (dullness) when the paint moulded around it.



Wax and polish treatments – that protect against chemical attack from acid raid and UV sun damage, for example – provide limited protection from the paint moulding to bird droppings, although they will make them easier to remove. The longer the deposit remains on the bodywork, and the higher the temperatures, the harder the dried deposit will be, and the greater the propensity for the paint lacquer to mould to it as it cools. Bird dropping damage can only be prevented by motorists remaining vigilant and removing the deposit as soon as possible.



Autoglym`s has outlined some tips for minimising the risk of damage from bird droppings:



- Remove the deposit at the earliest opportunity



- Motorists should use a moist cloth – Autoglym`s Bird Dropping Wipes are ideal – to gently lift the deposit from the surface



- If the deposit is dry or doesn`t lift easily, place a moist cloth over it for ten minutes to soften the deposit



- Dispose of any cloth or wipe used to remove bird droppings immediately and carefully wash your hands, as bird lime can harbour diseases



Paul Caller, CEO of Autoglym, said: "It`s a great shame when an otherwise fabulous-looking car is blighted with a tell-tale patch of dull paint. As a result of this new research by our R&D team in Letchworth, we now understand why bird droppings are a frighteningly potent hazard to bodywork.



"As bird droppings become ever more prevalent through spring and into summer, motorists must be extremely vigilant to avoid permanent damage, especially those who park their cars under trees at home or at work. The only way to prevent the paint becoming noticeably tarnished is to carefully remove deposits as swiftly as possible."







Interesting findings.

Bill D
05-05-2011, 12:54 PM
For a while I`ve treated bird droppings in a similar manner by spraying the affected area with a baking soda -water mixture and keeping it compressed to dwell on the surface with first aid gauze pads. The Autoglym wipes are the same idea. I then wipe down the area with a IPA-water mix.



The theory behind using the baking soda and then the IPA is to neutralize the acid in the bird droppings, and dry any of it out of the clear coat. If Autoglym is finding that acid content is really in fact insignificant in contributing to the etching effect droppings leave behind, that`s great news because it means less work in effort to try to minimize any damage from the droppings. However, any substance that has any kind of acid in it coming in contact with automotive paint is potentially quite harmful to it, so I would stay on high alert, even with the use of the Autoglym wipes, unless they specifically state they neutralize any acid from the droppings.



Can anything be done about a car that has been egged?

Ben@3D
05-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Interesting Stuff. More info on bird droppings then I ever though I wanted to know. I don`t want to be the one who collected the samples. :eek1:



:smile:

Lonnie
05-08-2011, 07:32 AM
If this is true, why wouldn`t dirt from, say mud, cause the same thing on a hood or roof of a vehicle. My "observation" is that debris/contaminant`s chemical make-up (IE, it`s acidic content) SEEMS to have a great deal to do with the etching of paint/clearcoat. To say "texture" of the debris/contaminants it THE major cause of etching, and not it`s chemical make-up, would indicate that any textured contaminant SHOULD cause the same result because of the physical interaction of the heating and cooling (expansion and contraction) of the paint/clearcoat. Maybe my "observation" that a contaminant`s chemical make-up as THE most important factor in a causing etching is similar to believing that the world is flat and that this "experiment" and new conclusion about the contaminant`s physical properties contribution to etching are new and relevant as the world is round. I just think it needs further study to be proven as fact.

Dan
05-08-2011, 08:47 AM
I just think it needs further study to be proven as fact.



Agreed, the one real takeaway from all of this is it doesn`t seem like the acid is the key contributor.

Bill D
05-08-2011, 03:09 PM
We have to bear in mind the species of bird, the size of the crap, what the bird ate, how long the crap sat on the paint, the temperature and environment, etc. and how they all compare and contrast. Sounds like it can become an involved scientific study.

bill57
05-08-2011, 09:52 PM
I don`t buy those findings. It`s about the acid content. The common belief is correct.

amcdonal86
05-09-2011, 09:38 AM
Interesting. Not sure if I buy it, but interesting!



I wonder if bird poo etching is less of a problem in cars parked in the shade?

bill57
05-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Without a doubt the hot sun makes the problem considerably worse. I once found my car parked in the direct July sun bombarded by a bird. I had etched in blemishes that needed wet sanding by the body shop to (almost) correct.

If the British can`t get something important right, like whether Saddam Husein had weapons of mass destruction, they most likely will get something as unimportant as bird poop wrong.

Dan
08-25-2011, 12:34 PM
Without a doubt the hot sun makes the problem considerably worse. I once found my car parked in the direct July sun bombarded by a bird. I had etched in blemishes that needed wet sanding by the body shop to (almost) correct.

If the British can`t get something important right, like whether Saddam Husein had weapons of mass destruction, they most likely will get something as unimportant as bird poop wrong.



You might be right, I was digging around doing some more bird poo research. I found this gem:



A mechanistic study of degradation of a typical automotive clearcoat caused by bird droppings (http://www.springerlink.com/content/826645027kq6835g/fulltext.html)



It really delves into what causes bird bomb etching.



Now does anyone know where I can order some liquid pancreatin?

Ron Ketcham
08-25-2011, 02:09 PM
I can not believe that they are referring to lacquer and not a modern high solid system.

But, it maybe a difference in paint terminolgy, UK vs US.

I realize that in some countries I worked in some always referred to a modern clear as lacquer.

Just the world, at least we have our steering wheels on the correct side of the vehicles.

LOL!

in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, "Give me a hammer!"

Grumpy

Dan
08-25-2011, 02:26 PM
Yeah, I`m guessing it is a modern paint system, just different terminology. Regardless, I`m very excited for having a synthetic bird poo substitute. Going to do some product testing. I have my suspicions as to who`s naughty and who is nice.

Ron Ketcham
08-25-2011, 03:39 PM
I used to do a segment on this issue when I taught the PrepExcellence, did about 10 minutes or so.

Yeah, what did the bird have for lunch, is it a "berry eater", or a "scrap" eater, etc.

We had a book that a distributor sent to us.

"What Bird Did That?", all kinds of birds, what they ate, how acidic and what acid were the droppings, etc.

Bill is on the money, temperature, what color of paint,what it ate, how much humidity, etc.

When at Finish Kare and I wanted to test a new polymer sealant, would take paint sample panels of various colors treated with what ever I was testing down to the dump in Santa Anna and put on the guard shack roof for a few days.

Those gulls put out some nasty -ahh- let`s say "doo".

Grumpy

Bill D
08-25-2011, 04:07 PM
If there were more products available in this area of car care,most anyone, fanatic or not, would probably apreciate it. Nobody likes dealing with poo. :chuckle:



Big need gap to fill but as the science behind it indicates, probably trickier than it seems to address.



I always get a kick out of Poop-Off products. :chuckle: They even have a marine version of the product. Although it`s apparently safe to use around an actual pet bird, I don`t know how well it might be used to clean ( and neutralize) crap off a car.



https://lifesgreatproducts.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=14

Dan
08-25-2011, 05:08 PM
I think the key here is an enzymatic reaction. While most paints and LSPs are acid resistant, nothing seems impervious to bird poo and eggs. Bugs also create enzyme based etching. Some of my research has indicated that bird poo isn`t extremely acidic.



While I agree that bird poo varies greatly, the fact that a synthetic substance is available to test with changes things greatly for me. While it was certainly possible to gather a bunch of samples of the real thing and mix them together, I would have no guarantee of any sort of reaction.



Ron, I am curious about your research. If you don`t mind sharing, what sort of variance did you observe with various LSPs? I have done no repeatable (even semi scientific) research but anecdotal evidence suggests polysiloxane sealants are as prone to etch as clean paint. Carnauba waxes see to offer much more protection for me.