Help - thin paint on 20 year old BLACK car

[superuser]

I just picked up a 20 year old Porsche and need some advice. The car is Black with original single stage paint. It looks like the paint has hard hard life. It has been way over buffed and is getting thin. You can see some primer on some of the trailing edges of the door panels and rain gutters. It has the typical fine scratches that I need to sort out. I am concerned about buffing it again and taking any more paint away. I am hoping that someone has a product that is a good filler so I can lessen the scratches with out being aggressive with a cutting polish. I do have a PorterCable DA buffer if needed.



Thanks.

dto

[Accumulator]

superuser- Welcome to Autopia! Cool car, nice that it has its original paint (thin or not).



I`d use the same approach Mike Phillips advocates for most such jobs, the short version follows:



Wash and clay. Dry. Apply a thick dose of Meguiar`s M07 and let it sit overnight before you buff it off. Then polish with M80 Speed Glaze, taking it easy on the obviously thin areas. Then more M07. Then wax with M26.



The M07 pretreatment can work wonders to rejuvenate old single stage (a rare case where "feeding the paint" is not complete BS). The M80 is pretty mild but will do a little correction. In the future you might want to use the even milder M09; it won`t do even the little correction that M80 does, but it will conceal pretty well. The additional M07 will do even more concealing and provide a nice sheen (if not exactly a "gloss" due to the paint`s condition). The m26 is a good wax for black and is "plenty good enough" for this job, no need to get all exotic about the choice of wax IMO.



See how other suggestions compare to the above and give it some thought before you jump into the work.

[superuser]

Thanks so much for the tips! I will read up on Mike Phillips approach.

[TLMitchell]

I just picked up a 20 year old Porsche and need some advice. The car is Black with original single stage paint. It looks like the paint has hard hard life. It has been way over buffed and is getting thin. You can see some primer on some of the trailing edges of the door panels and rain gutters. It has the typical fine scratches that I need to sort out. I am concerned about buffing it again and taking any more paint away. I am hoping that someone has a product that is a good filler so I can lessen the scratches with out being aggressive with a cutting polish. I do have a PorterCable DA buffer if needed.



Thanks.

dto




superuser- Welcome to Autopia! Cool car, nice that it has its original paint (thin or not).



I`d use the same approach Mike Phillips advocates for most such jobs, the short version follows:



Great minds think alike, must be an Ohio thing. :nod: While I was reading the OP I was thinking about Mike`s single-stage job on that Mark. Taking a finish to it`s maximum potential is more limited when dealing with damaged, thin paint. Personally, on an older ride I`d prefer original paint complete with it`s flaws looking as good as it can without risking imparting further damage. IMO, that beats a flawless show-car, clear coated finish, especially on something I was going to drive vs show. But that`s just me. :der:



TL

[superuser]

Great minds think alike, must be an Ohio thing. :nod: While I was reading the OP I was thinking about Mike`s single-stage job on that Mark. Taking a finish to it`s maximum potential is more limited when dealing with damaged, thin paint. Personally, on an older ride I`d prefer original paint complete with it`s flaws looking as good as it can without risking imparting further damage. IMO, that beats a flawless show-car, clear coated finish, especially on something I was going to drive vs show. But that`s just me. :der:



TL



I just finished reading the article and it was just what I was looking for. This 964 will never be a concourse winner but it can be a really nice driver. I am having a good PDR guy sort out all the dings tomorrow. Do any of you have any tips or articles on using touch-up paint on scratches and chips. I have some great high quality brushes and was thinking about slowing trying to fix the larger scratches before I begin the paint restoration.



Thanks again.

D

[TLMitchell]

Do any of you have any tips or articles on using touch-up paint on scratches and chips. I have some great high quality brushes and was thinking about slowing trying to fix the larger scratches before I begin the paint restoration.



You`ve got a couple of choices, the traditional, multi-application, buildup method and then deal with the paint blobs. Then there`s Dr. Colorchip. I`ve used DC on black and it worked well... eventually. There`s a bit of a learning curve and my results have improved with each use. I`ve had best results using their t-shirt method for rashed front ends. Not perfect but it passes the 10 ft test and after curing polishes with no ill effects.



TL

[C. Charles Hahn]

You`ve got a couple of choices, the traditional, multi-application, buildup method and then deal with the paint blobs. Then there`s Dr. Colorchip. I`ve used DC on black and it worked well... eventually. There`s a bit of a learning curve and my results have improved with each use. I`ve had best results using their t-shirt method for rashed front ends. Not perfect but it passes the 10 ft test and after curing polishes with no ill effects.



TL



As I`ve personally never tried it, does anyone know how well DC does with an existing single stage finish? I know it works well on BC/CC but how the chemicals used in the system react to SSU or lacquer I don`t know.



Hate to see someone ruin an original finish with using DC if it could cause a problem....

[superuser]

Surprisingly the hood only has a handfull of rock chips. This is uncommon for a 964, the car is so low that the hood and bumper normally takes a betting. When it showed up and came off the InnerCity truck the 964 had an old school braw on. I think the chips I can do with touch up paint fairly easy it is the scratches I am worried about. After I build them up do I wet sand the area with 3000?

[Accumulator]

Great minds think alike, must be an Ohio thing. :nod: While I was reading the OP I was thinking about Mike`s single-stage job on that Mark...



Yeah, years ago Mike and I were burning up the phone lines when I had an old Jag with just this sort of situation; I`m a bit of a fanatic about original paint myself :D And yeah, just get me going on single stage cars reshot with b/c :furious: (Even though one section of my Jag had to be done that way :( ).

[Accumulator]

As I`ve personally never tried it, does anyone know how well DC does with an existing single stage finish? I know it works well on BC/CC but how the chemicals used in the system react to SSU or lacquer I don`t know.



Hate to see someone ruin an original finish with using DC if it could cause a problem....



I would *expect* it to work well but that`s a good point about reacting with the original paint :think: I`d sure want to ask about it before I went that route. IF they say it`s OK, then swell, there`s the answer for this one IMO. IF not...



I can`t help but think that DC would otherwise be good for single stage, but I`d consider Langka too.



I dunno....seems to me that touching up black single stage oughta be pretty straightforward other than the leveling issue (abrade it level with the thin oe paint? solvent it level with Langka vs. the orginal single stage? both might have risks).



I`d test the Langka in some out-of-the-way spot and see if it does an immediate solvent action on the oe paint. Might be OK if you don`t let it dwell too long, and it won`t need any real dwell time on the touchup.




I think the chips I can do with touch up paint fairly easy it is the scratches I am worried about. After I build them up do I wet sand the area with 3000?



The problem there is that the nice and gentle (well, relatively speaking) 3K might not level the touchup worth a [crap], which will result in your going over and over it trying, which will do more damage to the surrounding (presumably thin) paint.



I *think* I`d try brushing in the touchup paint with numerous thin layers. Let it dry for a while, probably using a halogen light to add a bit of heat. Let it sit for a few days. Then try the Langka *VERY* cautiously, and *VERY* gently...I`d rather leave the touchup somewhat unleveled than mess up the original paint and make the whole thing a project for a good painter.



FWIW, on my Jag my painter touched it up with a brush and then wetsanded, but he`s *VERY* good at this stuff and barely scuffed the surrounding OE paint at all. Decades of experience, plus a whole afternoon on a few chips, resulted in some incredible work. No way I coulda come close :nixweiss

[superuser]

superuser- Welcome to Autopia! Cool car, nice that it has its original paint (thin or not).



I`d use the same approach Mike Phillips advocates for most such jobs, the short version follows:



Wash and clay. Dry. Apply a thick dose of Meguiar`s M07 and let it sit overnight before you buff it off. Then polish with M80 Speed Glaze, taking it easy on the obviously thin areas. Then more M07. Then wax with M26.



The M07 pretreatment can work wonders to rejuvenate old single stage (a rare case where "feeding the paint" is not complete BS). The M80 is pretty mild but will do a little correction. In the future you might want to use the even milder M09; it won`t do even the little correction that M80 does, but it will conceal pretty well. The additional M07 will do even more concealing and provide a nice sheen (if not exactly a "gloss" due to the paint`s condition). The m26 is a good wax for black and is "plenty good enough" for this job, no need to get all exotic about the choice of wax IMO.



See how other suggestions compare to the above and give it some thought before you jump into the work.



I have a couple of more newbie questions:



What about using Black Hole after the m80?



In Mike Phillips article it looks like he also had a sealant step. Is this needed and if so what about using Blackfire Wet Diamond?



Thanks again.

D

[Accumulator]

I have a couple of more newbie questions:



What about using Black Hole after the m80?



I`ve never used Black Hole so I can`t say. I recommended the Meguiar`s stuff because it works incredibly well on single stage. I generally stick with old school approaches/products on old school paint. I`m all for finding new and better stuff, but to my suprise I don`t find newer stuff to work as well on the older single stage stuff.




In Mike Phillips article it looks like he also had a sealant step. Is this needed and if so what about using Blackfire Wet Diamond?



I`ve never ued Wet Diamond either, just their All Finish Paint Protection. So again, I can`t really say.



But I still stick to my old-with-old approach and use waxes instead of sealants on single stage. And the more "old school" waxes seem to have less synthetic stuff in them; usually not a good thing, but again, on old-tech paint things are just different.

Thanks again.



Closest I come to using a sealant on single stage is the Autoglym SRP I use on my Jag`s lacquer, which I top with Souveran. SRP is a synthetic, but it`s also another old-tech product that`s been around forever and was originally developed for use on British cars back in the days when everything was single stage.



Hey, it`s not like you`ll kill the paint or anything..go ahead and try what you have and/or what seems like a good approach. See how it goes and tweak it as you see fit.

[superuser]

Thanks Accumulator,



I order up everything on your list and a bottle of Black Hole just to give it a try. I am sure that after a good day of cleaning and polishing I can get this Black car sorted out:-)



Have a great weekend.

D

[superuser]

OK, so I did the job a few weeks ago and it took me a few days. There a few spots that need a little more work to get out some of the deeper swirls. I was not sure what to use m105 or maybe the Optimum Hyper Compound.



Also when look at the hood in my garage lights I see what I think is micro marring. Did I not work the m80 long enough?



Thanks for any help, it is tough being a novice with a Black car.

Daryl

[Accumulator]

OK, so I did the job a few weeks ago and it took me a few days. There a few spots that need a little more work to get out some of the deeper swirls. I was not sure what to use m105 or maybe the Optimum Hyper Compound.



Well, better to err on the side of caution :xyxthumbs




Also when look at the hood in my garage lights I see what I think is micro marring. Did I not work the m80 long enough?



That`s possible, but there could be other explanations. Were the application and buffing media soft enough (and not contaminated?)? Are the flaws "new" from the M80 or "old" and only recently uncovered/noticed? This stuff is tough to diagnose over the internet ;)






.. it is tough being a novice with a Black car.



Hey, some black cars are tough for *anybody*! I bet you`ve made some good progress already.



I`d try doing small test-spots if/when you try to refine things further.