Pad dependent polishes??

[SSizzlin']

In the grand scheme of thins, all polishes vary in level of cut depending on what pad you use. However, to my knowledge, there is only 2 pad dependent polishes that are specifically designed to be able to get a heavy cut from and aggressive pad, while being able to finish nicely with a less aggressive pad and the same polish. These 2 polishes would be Meguiars 86 solo polish and System 51. Are there any other polishes that are specifically designed to be used for compounding with a cut nearly to M105 to finishing like M205 or 85rd depending on pad choice? Gtechniq P1? HD UNO?

[justin30513]

UNO is pretty darn close. Did some wet sanding while trapped at home in the snow. UNO and a DA did some really good things. With no dusting.

[porta]

Menzerna PO203S cuts great with a wool pad and yet it finishes out nice with a soft foam pad.

[Chris@Optimum]

I hear a lot of people knocking the cut of Optimum Hyper Compound, but it cuts great with a "cutting" pad and finishes nice with a "polishing" pad. I don`t know why people blame the product when they are using a "light cutting" pad and only get light cutting. I`m very pleased with the no dusting, wipe off easy, pad dependent Optimum Hyper System.

[TLMitchell]

Are there any other polishes that are specifically designed to be used for compounding with a cut nearly to M105 to finishing like M205 or 85rd depending on pad choice? Gtechniq P1? HD UNO?



Don`t have an answer to your specific but I`ve used 105/205 that way with problem finishes. I was getting a pretty decent finish with 105/orange on soft black and couldn`t get 205 to finish without micromarring no matter what I tried. Ended up finishing with 105/gray and it was flawless. In another instance I used 205/orange and had similar results. I got the idea after reading about Nick Chapman trying in vain to get 205 to finish on a black Colorado. After trying everything else under the sun he tried 205/LC yellow and ended up with a stunning mirror finish! Who woulda thunk it?



I think you`ll find there`s a lot of combos that work well if you think outside the box, may not need to be pad-dependent by design. IIRC, Todd Helme was messing around with 105/LC red with outstanding results.



TL

[Legacy]

In the grand scheme of thins, all polishes vary in level of cut depending on what pad you use. However, to my knowledge, there is only 2 pad dependent polishes that are specifically designed to be able to get a heavy cut from and aggressive pad, while being able to finish nicely with a less aggressive pad and the same polish. These 2 polishes would be Meguiars 86 solo polish and System 51. Are there any other polishes that are specifically designed to be used for compounding with a cut nearly to M105 to finishing like M205 or 85rd depending on pad choice? Gtechniq P1? HD UNO?



GTechniq P1 is very pad dependent and finishes down great.

[porta]

Scholl Concepts S17 is also a great one step compound. :: SCHOLL Concepts GmbH :: S17 :: (http://www.schollconcepts.com/en/professionals_paintfinish_s17_used.html)

[Thomas Dekany]

UNO cuts way better than S17. UNO finishes perfect as well.

[SuperBee364]

I know that the "one polish, numerous pads" thing is all the rage right now, but I guess I`m a bit old fashioned; I vary the polish, and for the most part, stay with one pad, and that`s a zero bite soft one. Unless I`m doing *serious* compounding, then I`ll go with a cutting pad (normally a SurBuf on a PC, or PFW or some other type of wool on a rotary).



Let`s say you take some plain old baby oil, and use it to lubricate various foam pads, some with bite, and one with no bite. Now apply some baby oil to a pad, and start polishing your car with it. What is the finish that the pad leaves gonna look like? Since the baby oil has no abrasives, the finish is going to look only as good as the pad used. If you did this with a cutting pad, it`s not gonna look very good. If you did it with a zero bite pad, it`ll look pretty good. So what`s the point of this little experiment? The point is that polishes are only going to finish down as well *as the pad you used to apply it*. If you use anything other than a zero bite pad, the chances are pretty good that the finish you`re left with was what the *pad* was capable of finishing down to, *not* what the *polish* was capable of finishing down to.



So when I use M105, I start out using it with a zero bite pad. And that way I know that it is finishing down as well as the *polish* is capable of finishing, not the pad. As long as this is giving me enough correction, I`ll stick with that zero bite pad through out the compounding polishing step. If it`s not, I`ll either do another application of M105, or step up to a pad with a bit of bite.



But for final polishing, IMO, the very best pad you can use is a zero bite pad. That way, once again, you`ll be finishing down to the level that the *polish* is capable of finishing to, and not the pad. I`ve often wondered why people do the final polishing step with a pad that has cut to it; you`re just not getting the best gloss you can get when the pad is hindering the polishes finishing abilities.



IMO, there are very few times when anything other than a zero bite pad is needed for KBM/M105. You`ll still get serious correction (without removing additional clear coat unnecessarily), with a finish as good as the polish is capable of giving (and in the case of a DA/105, that`s gonna be pretty darn good). Again, IMO, it`s better to use two applications of M105 with a zero bite pad, than step up to a cutting pad and just going over it once (this is for non-pros, for obvious reasons).



So, unless I need *serious* correction done in one step, I really like staying with a zero bite pad, then changing the polish as appropriate for the current polishing step.

[superchargedg]

Damn good answer!!!

[Todd@RUPES]

In the grand scheme of thins, all polishes vary in level of cut depending on what pad you use.



Absolutely. All polishes are going to be affected by the application method.




However, to my knowledge, there is only 2 pad dependent polishes that are specifically designed to be able to get a heavy cut from and aggressive pad, while being able to finish nicely with a less aggressive pad and the same polish. These 2 polishes would be Meguiars 86 solo polish and System 51.



I`m not too sure I would agree with this statement. While modern techniques in refining abrasives (aluminum oxide in particular) have allowed polishes to have a greater range, at the end of the day we are still talking about aluminum oxide that is in some type of emulsion (whether it be oil, water, oil-in-water, silicone, or any of the possible variables.)



I would substitute the word `designed` for the word `marketed` and I think that would be much more accurate.



With the `new` non-diminishing abrasives one of the biggest factors in the products performance is how many abrasives are packed into the product.



Take M105 for example. The abrasives in M105 are as fine as anything you are going to find in pretty much any polish/compound/etc. (Think PO85rd`s abrasives that have been fractured to their crystal). But there are so many abrasives in the product that you still can remove material at a very quick rate. Because you are removing material quickly (because of the amount of abrasives) you are contaminating the polish/pad with removed paint at a much higher rate, which will cause degradation to the finish quality. However if the pad is keep free of debris and the work times are kept short you might be very surprised at the surface quality you can achieve.



Going to the side of spectrum, you can remove a lot of material with a dedicated finishing polish such as PO85rd when applied aggressively (wool pad, high RPM, rotary). I remember working with Brian and we where pulling out 2k sanding marks with O85rd at a Meg`s So1o Cutting Wool Pad with no problem.




Are there any other polishes that are specifically designed to be used for compounding with a cut nearly to M105 to finishing like M205 or 85rd depending on pad choice? Gtechniq P1? HD UNO?



I don`t how many are specifically designed for it, but I know of many that are marketed as such. For me personally, M105 would be my choice, but like anything, it is going to come down to user preference. Some people sing the word about certain polishes, but after 1 wipedown, those products look like crap IME. However, it could very well be my limited experience with the product (and most likely is) vs. the product itself.

[gigondaz]

The "Many Pads + 1 Product" concept is mostly a marketing approach.

Many other compounds and polishes can also finish down well with diff pads.



Example: Meguiars No85 Diamond Cut.

You can use it with Megs wool pad, and then Polishing Pad, and then Finishing Pad.

Very nice results on medium and hard clears.

On soft clears, you can finish it with Flex VRG DA or PC with + Menzerna FP2.



Example: Menz PO85RD.

Very nice with wool pad on soft and medium clears.

You can finish it down using other pads.



Example: Sonax Nano Polish.

Can be used with wool, all the way to the finest, softest no-cut pads for slow jewelling...mmm...reminds me of Superbee!!

This is SUPERB on blacks!!! It`s my current favourite polish on black cars!

If you like your black to become super black...you must try this.

Super, inky black with tremendous illusion of depth.

Just use it as per Megs Diamond Cut above. It`s very versatile, easy to use, and fool-proof. I just bought another 6 bottles yesterday for my shop.

Topped with Carnauba Moose....you`d better get some napkins for your drool:drool:

[Thomas Dekany]

Some people sing the word about certain polishes, but after 1 wipedown, those products look like crap IME. However, it could very well be my limited experience with the product (and most likely is) vs. the product itself.



like who?////

[porta]

The "Many Pads + 1 Product" concept is mostly a marketing approach.

Many other compounds and polishes can also finish down well with diff pads.



Example: Meguiars No85 Diamond Cut.

You can use it with Megs wool pad, and then Polishing Pad, and then Finishing Pad.

Very nice results on medium and hard clears.

On soft clears, you can finish it with Flex VRG DA or PC with + Menzerna FP2.



Example: Menz PO85RD.

Very nice with wool pad on soft and medium clears.

You can finish it down using other pads.



Example: Sonax Nano Polish.

Can be used with wool, all the way to the finest, softest no-cut pads for slow jewelling...mmm...reminds me of Superbee!!

This is SUPERB on blacks!!! It`s my current favourite polish on black cars!

If you like your black to become super black...you must try this.

Super, inky black with tremendous illusion of depth.

Just use it as per Megs Diamond Cut above. It`s very versatile, easy to use, and fool-proof. I just bought another 6 bottles yesterday for my shop.

Topped with Carnauba Moose....you`d better get some napkins for your drool:drool:



I never liked the Sonax nano polish, but it seems like I have to give it a try on my own solid black Audi, with a soft clear (!?!) and it marrs the paint when I remove

the polish. Any tips on application and pads?

[Junebug]

I think with all the variables on a detail - paint, condition, weather, then add pads, polish, machines, technique - it boils down to finding something that works consistantly on "most" details. I know guys that use the 3M system and it works fine, others do KBM and get great results. Me? I`d love to find 1 polish that does it all and 2 pads that handle everything. Wouldn`t that be simple, easy and cheap!? But you always get that one car that gives you fits till you figure what it likes and will work.



That`s it - from now on all cars need to have the same kind of paint! LOL!