Detailing Overkill or Just Right?

[RushM3]

Carbon Black e46 M3

Light swirls, some hologramming on hood



1) Dawn bath using 2 bucket technique & grit guard inserts



2) Clay using Griot`s clay (it`s been about a year since it was last clayed)



3) Re-wash car with Griot`s car wash



4) 3M Perfect-It Extra Cut Compound (1200 grit) w/ rotary buffer, orange pad, 1800rpm



5) Menzerna SIP (2000 grit) w/ rotary, orange pad, 1300rpm



6) 3M Ultrafina w/ rotary, white pad, 1100rpm



7) Wipe down with Zaino Z-6 to remove oils from polishing stages



8) Klasse AIO applied by hand, buffed/jeweled off w/ rotary, blue pad



9) P21s Concours Look carnauba wax (just ran out of Zaino Z-2 so using P21s as a close second favorite)



First time detailing to this extent so wondering if I`m overextending myself for no good reason, or if it`s justified. I`ve seen a few examples of similar systems that seem to work well, and individually, these products are generally well adopted.



I`ve also tried out almost everything on the list individually and have generally been pleased with the results. I`m just concerned with feedback on a paint/body detailing system for now.

[Accumulator]

RushM3- Welcome to Autopia!



My M3s were earlier ones, and your paint might be a little different. But here goes anyhow:



-The PI Extra Cut might be more than you need, but it`s a good choice if you *do* need it. I`d use either a wool pad (runs cooler, thus safer) or a Meguiar`s burgudy cutting pad (works better for me than other foams for this kind of job with that product).



-Never used SIP but it oughta be a good follow up. If you don`t already have the SIP, consider the new Optimum Spray Compound instead as it`s incredibly user-friendly. That 1300 speed sounds a little low to me, but I don`t really know.



-Not sure if the Ultrafina will be too big a jump after the preceding rotary work or not :confused: Again, check that speed is correct. Some Ultrafina expert might have opinions about the pad too.



Heh heh, hope you`re *good* with that rotary, thinking about things like holograms/etc. Speaking of which, I wouldn`t use the rotary to buff off the KAIO residue, but that`s just me.



After all that work, I`d want something much more durable than KAIO/P21S (a combo I consider over-rated lookswise too). But hey...again, that`s just me.



My only concerns are a) the rotary-only approach can be a challenge (I gotta admit I`ve never satisfied myself doing it that way), b) the Extra Cut might be overkill and you don`t want to botch up with that stuff as it can bite you, and I just never found it to go quite right with orange foam pads, and c) that KAIO/P21s combo after all that prep work...I`d much rather have a coat of FK1000P or Collinite or something on there, even if it meant ordering it.



Hope it turns out well, the e46 M3 is a nice car.

[imported_dfazekas]

If you only have light swirls then step 4 might be overkill.



I`d start with the SIP and if that doesn`t get you where you want to go, then resort to the Extra-Cut.



You`re probably going to need another step after that.

Maybe Intensive Polish, or something along those lines...

Haven`t used Menzerna in a while, so I`m trying to remember how all their polishes finish out.



I believe ultrafina is more for jeweling than anything.

And I think a black or blue pad would be more appropriate for that.

I don`t think uf has much cut at all...

But then, I haven`t spent much time playing with it.



Remember to do iso wipe-downs between each step to make sure

no fillers are covering anything up.



Also, welcome to Autopia.

Good luck!

[RushM3]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! You`ve addressed some of my core concerns.



If I ditch the 3M compound and start with the SIP after the second wash, what do you think would be a good bridge between the SIP and the Ultrafina? Maybe the Menzerna IP, as previously suggested? Should I ditch the Ultrafina altogether and use a different product?



Also, I agree with using a stronger sealant than a wax after all that work. I`ll pick up some Zaino Z-2 or Z-5.



Another concern, do you think all this rotary usage is a bit much? I`m not so concerned about the risk of burning through paint from user error (i.e. lack of constant movement), rather, wearing down the clearcoat by using it for steps that might not necessarily benefit from rotary use.

[imported_dfazekas]

If you`re set on using Menz, then check this thread out:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/133107-help-menzerna-products.html



Post #2 should help.



Jeweling it (with ultrafina, or PO85RD, or whatever) will really help the black pop, so if you`re going for

perfection, I`d recommend it.



Assuming that there`s no user error, you won`t be removing very much clear with a normal

three step process. But keep in mind, getting paint to finish down perfectly with a rotary is a tricky

combination of pad, product, & user. Thats why I usually do medium to light polishing with my DA.

Same results from less work.

[RushM3]

That Menzerna link is amazingly comprehensive. Glad to see I`m not the only one perplexed by their naming system.



Actually, Menzerna is the one brand I haven`t used in my list of products from my original post. So I`m hardly wed to them, but they seem to readily come up in pro detailing forums when you see a thread on polishes.



I think I`ll call them tomorrow and get the skinny directly from the horse`s mouth.

[imported_dfazekas]

They make good stuff.



In the end it all comes down to personal preference though.



Best of luck to you.

Let us know how your car comes out.

[gigondaz]

Carbon Black e46 M3

Light swirls, some hologramming on hood



1) Dawn bath using 2 bucket technique & grit guard inserts



2) Clay using Griot`s clay (it`s been about a year since it was last clayed)



3) Re-wash car with Griot`s car wash



4) 3M Perfect-It Extra Cut Compound (1200 grit) w/ rotary buffer, orange pad, 1800rpm



5) Menzerna SIP (2000 grit) w/ rotary, orange pad, 1300rpm



6) 3M Ultrafina w/ rotary, white pad, 1100rpm



7) Wipe down with Zaino Z-6 to remove oils from polishing stages



8) Klasse AIO applied by hand, buffed/jeweled off w/ rotary, blue pad



9) P21s Concours Look carnauba wax (just ran out of Zaino Z-2 so using P21s as a close second favorite)



First time detailing to this extent so wondering if I`m overextending myself for no good reason, or if it`s justified. I`ve seen a few examples of similar systems that seem to work well, and individually, these products are generally well adopted.



I`ve also tried out almost everything on the list individually and have generally been pleased with the results. I`m just concerned with feedback on a paint/body detailing system for now.



Great effort, rush:razz:

I`m sure it was a good learning experience too.



As to whether Step 4 (rotary+wool) is necessary or not,it depends.

The E46 is not new.

If you`re 100% sure there`s only swirls, then Step 4 might not be necessary. But on all older cars I detail, it`s always a mix of swirls + lots of RIDS. My customers expect to see a flawless black finish with the RIDS removed. The more RIDS that are removed, the more impressed they are.

That`s why I always start with wool+rotary, due to their kind of expectation and $$$ spent.



I would not "jewel" using KAIO.

IMO, AIO contains chemical cleaners, not super-fine abrasives.

It merely cleans the paint, puts on a wee bit of sealant, and helps to remove abit of extraneous polishing oils.



If I`ve decided to use a Carnauba (that has relatively poor durability), I won`t bother to remove any polishing oils as nubas don`t need to bond with the clearcoat. I`ll just apply S100 straight away...but of course, we all have own unique ways to grill that nice fat piece of rib-eye!!:drool::drool::drool:

[Scottwax]

Zero idea without seeing your car in person. There is no way any of us can tell you what exact polishes you need to use or if you need to polish that much. I will say that usually you don`t need to wash after claying and it is better to wash after polishing rather than use a QD. I`d skip the AIO step after Ultrafina unless you want less depth.



1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Remove swirls-use what works-do a few test spots

4. Ultrafina

5. Wash

6. Wax

[RushM3]

Great effort, rush:razz:

I`m sure it was a good learning experience too.



As to whether Step 4 (rotary+wool) is necessary or not,it depends.

The E46 is not new.

If you`re 100% sure there`s only swirls, then Step 4 might not be necessary. But on all older cars I detail, it`s always a mix of swirls + lots of RIDS. My customers expect to see a flawless black finish with the RIDS removed. The more RIDS that are removed, the more impressed they are.

That`s why I always start with wool+rotary, due to their kind of expectation and $$$ spent.



I would not "jewel" using KAIO.

IMO, AIO contains chemical cleaners, not super-fine abrasives.

It merely cleans the paint, puts on a wee bit of sealant, and helps to remove abit of extraneous polishing oils.



If I`ve decided to use a Carnauba (that has relatively poor durability), I won`t bother to remove any polishing oils as nubas don`t need to bond with the clearcoat. I`ll just apply S100 straight away...but of course, we all have own unique ways to grill that nice fat piece of rib-eye!!:drool::drool::drool:





Definitely agreed, many ways to grill a ribeye, but glad to see there are some consistent themes emerging from this thread.



I`ve decided to forego AIO & wax in favor of a more durable sealant. If I`m putting this much work into it, I want it to last.



You`re right, the car is almost 9 years old, but it`s been pretty well babied. Has about 40k on the odometer. I`ll have to check again to see if I notice any RIDS. Don`t think there are many. Certainly haven`t noticed any that you can feel with your fingernail, with the exception of some clearcoat chips from rocks on the hood.



At the end of the day, I guess a lot of this is trial & error to see what works, but in an educated manner.

[RushM3]

Just got off the phone with Menzerna and they recommended a 2-step polish: SIP (PO83) followed by SuperFinish (PO106FA). Apparently PO106, PO85 and PO87 are all in the same family of products. They use the same abrasive with different concentrates, so really they can all yield the same result depending on your technique.



Interesting sidenote, the PO85 was developed for the Maybach`s scratch resistant finish. But consumers found the polish was too slow-going so they came out with the 87 which is a little more concentrated.



So here`s the update:



1) Dawn bath

2) Clay

3) Griot`s wash

4) SIP, orange pad, 1500rpm

5) SF (PO106)m gray pad, 1500rpm

6) IPA wipedown to remove oils from polish

7) Zaino Z-5 x 2 coats



Seems simple enough. What do we think?

[gigondaz]

.....6) IPA wipedown to remove oils from polish

7) Zaino Z-5 x 2 coats



Just using IPA is insufficient.

For optimum durability of Zaino Z2Pro, better do a dishwashing liquid wash first, then IPA wipedown..and apply 1st layer Z2Pro+ZFX.

Important to use ZFX catalyst on the 1st layer.



And since you shd be using ZFX+Z2-Pro, you can mix a bigger batch, and do 3 layers within a day. Will look superb on well-prepped paint.

Z6 or even Z8 in between layers, as recommended by Zaino, makes a noticeable difference and it`s not a gimmick.



10yrs ago, I did the above steps on my red car at night, and I was so impressed by the results, I wanted to call my buddy at midnight just to tell them how great it is:drool::drool:

[SoCalB6]

1) Dawn bath using 2 bucket technique & grit guard inserts - Good



2) Clay using Griot`s clay (it`s been about a year since it was last clayed) - Good



3) Re-wash car with Griot`s car wash - Use the Dawn from #1



4) 3M Perfect-It Extra Cut Compound (1200 grit) w/ rotary buffer, orange pad, 1800rpm - Good, but don`t get hung up on only using 1800.



5) Menzerna SIP (2000 grit) w/ rotary, orange pad, 1300rpm - Try a white pad. Don`t get hung up on 1300.



6) 3M Ultrafina w/ rotary, white pad, 1100rpm - Try a finishing pad. Don`t get hung up on the rpm`s.



7) Wipe down with Zaino Z-6 to remove oils from polishing stages - Good. Possibly use IPA instead? You should wash the car w/dawn as I bet it will be dusty as heck.



8) Klasse AIO applied by hand, buffed/jeweled off w/ rotary, blue pad - Skip



9) P21s Concours Look carnauba wax (just ran out of Zaino Z-2 so using P21s as a close second favorite) - Good



Hope that helps!