Those cleaners that are also protectants...

[levander]

Learning about this car cleaning stuff. It`s like I have an ideological opposition to all those cleaners that are also protectants. Like Meguiar`s Quick and Quick Interior Detailers. Armor All. Stuff like that.



It just seems weird trying to get dirt out and protecting at the same time. Like, what if you have trouble getting the dirt out? Are you simultaneously making the dirt harder to get out by protecting it at the same time you are cleaning it?



I know I only have the most basic, highest level understanding of chemistry involved. But, when I look at this stuff, I just can`t get past that idea of how weird cleaning and protecting at the same time is.



I could see cleaning and protecting maybe if you`re pretty anal about keeping your car clean all the time. Then, it probably never happens that bug splatter stays on your car for a couple of weeks. You get it off right away and probably don`t have any trouble cleaning it off. But, beyond that... just seems weird to me.



And, if your car is really dirty, it seems like you`d want to clean only first, and then later protect.



But, between those two extremes, I don`t know. The way I see most people take care of their cars, I`d think they`d want to clean before protecting when they eventually get around to doing something. But then, all these readily available OTC products for consumers for quick cleaning, that`s how they do it. They tell the consumer to clean and protect at the same time.



Opinions appreciated. Just wondering what other people think, so maybe I can eventually come to some kind of opinion I don`t just feel weird about. I know I don`t know enough to tell people to do it one way or another. Wondering what other people think.

[Dan]

Well most waxes have enough solvents in them to clean tar off your paint, and you use those right? IMO the problem with most protectants is they don`t clean well enough. For that I like APC.

[alloutdetailing]

With the type of cars I clean it would be a nightmare trying to use armorall or those 2 in one products. I just don`t get anything clean enough.





And I never came across a wax that would remove tar. Can you name a few? Thanks

[Dan]

And I never came across a wax that would remove tar. Can you name a few? Thanks



Honestly I can`t think of one that won`t, maybe something water based like BFWD or OCW. Anything else, leave a blob of it on the tar, let it sit 5 minutes and wipe off. Perhaps you`ve had a chance to look at some MSDS sheets for the products you use. Most of them have variations of petroleum distillates.



They are necessary for the wax to disolve and be spreadable. Once the distillates flash off, the wax hardens on the surface of your car.

[StadiumDetail]

for a first time detail I would suggest APC (all purpose cleaner, usually purchased online or through a distributor) for the first cleaning, then go over the interior a second time with the protectant. For future details and regular maint. you can get away with just the protectant since the cleaners in it should be more than enough for the light dirt/grime that is in the car.



That is of course if you like your interior to have a shine or if the vinyl is really dried out and requires the protectant. I personally perfer a non dressed interior that is simply clean of everything and has a matte finish, for this the APC is all you need.

[beachcities]

meguiers quick interior detailer is a good product for me. its not for cleaning/ maybe for a lightly dusted interior and for touchups. it works well if you have a conditioned interior, and need to clean a small spot, becuase unlike an apc, it wont streak the product you have on there, and it smells reall fresh.

[Kean]

....I feel the same way as yakky about protectants. If a surface is soiled enough (vs. light contamination/dust), I will typically use a dedicated product to prep the finish first.

[craigdt]

Do whatever makes you happy dude.



If a surface is dirty enough, yes, use a dedicated cleaner. Then protect it.

You arent going to take Megs QID to a surface with caked on dirt.

[Concourswanna b]

Meg`s 39 diluted, water rinse, 303.

[Leadfootluke]

You may find this post useful useful in terms of cleaner/protection for paint.



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/126864-newb-aio-2.html#post1350302

[levander]

Leadfootluke - I think that article is more specific towards waxes than what I`m asking about. It is interesting that for a paint wax you want something with cleaner in it on dirtier cars. But, I`m thinking that`s a distinct case.



craigdt - starting this thread and hoping people would talk about it was kind of me trying to find out what I want to do...



Most people in this thread are saying that the 2 in one products don`t clean as well as a dedicated cleaner. And so, only if you`re car has been being maintained properly would you go with a 2 in 1. That seems to summarize what I`ve picked up here and there reading about it.



But, what`s strange is the products they sell regular consumers. Like, Armor-All is a 2 in 1 and it`s the most universally known car cleaning product there is. Everybody`s had a bottle of Armor-All in there life. And, most people do not take very good care of their cars at all. So, you`d think they`d be selling them dedicated cleaners? Because they all got dirty cars. Or, at least the vast majority of them.



Similar to Armor-All, you can get QD, which has protectant, off the shelf making it so much easier to come by. But, ONR, that doesn`t have protectant, and can mix into a quick detailing solution? You gotta mail order that stuff. And, heaven forbid a regular consumer even know what it is.

[StadiumDetail]

The reasoning behind APC and ONR not being over the counter is because of other reasons than you may be thinking. ONR is very new to the market and doesn`t have the mass market like Meguiars or Mothers to supply to a million stores world wide, and even then to the normal car guy it is just another soap on the shelf and they are going to stick to what they know. APCs are actually quite strong, even diluted 10:1, and if grandma sprayed some on the dash of her 15yr old caddy, the phone rang, she answered and forgot all about her car until an hour later damage is possible. Damage means lawsuits. The mild cleaners in the 2 in 1 products won`t cause any damage if left on and the dressings cover up what the cleaners left behind, good enough for 99% of the population.



Sadly, over the counter products are very limited because of the human beings who insist on only using 3 brain cells at any given moment.

[Accumulator]

..But, what`s strange is the products they sell regular consumers. Like, Armor-All is a 2 in 1 and it`s the most universally known car cleaning product there is. Everybody`s had a bottle of Armor-All in there life. And, most people do not take very good care of their cars at all. So, you`d think they`d be selling them dedicated cleaners? Because they all got dirty cars. Or, at least the vast majority of them..



[Heh heh, Accumulator climbs onto his soapbox :o ]



The average consumer is looking for an easy way out, even if it`s not a realistically satisfactory solution. Tell the average person that one step will yield the same results as two (or more) and they`ll go for it. And as long as the results are remotely satisfactory they`ll say "good enough".



Even if the results are *not* satisfactory, the company has sold one bottle of product, and that`s often good enough; it`s like the crappy car dealers who`re satisfied to sell one car each to a series of suckers as opposed to building a satisfied clientele of repeat customers.



Oh, and QEW (very similar to ONR) is often available OTC in RV stores. Optimum products just aren`t marketed that way, not like it`s any big secret or anything...I suspect that Dr. G. just doesn`t see it as a financially viable approach compared to how it`s distributed now.



Lots of "that stuff`s risky!" products are available OTC...ever try TW or Dupont#7 rubbing compound?!? Lawsuits from somebody messing up their paint...nah, not gonna get much traction there IMO. Go to court asking to be rewarded damages and win what? A free detail or a repainted panel after all that cost and hassle? Who`s gonna bother with that, and just imagine trying to convince non-car-folks (the judge/jury) that some cosmetic damage even matters. It`s just that *reputable* (or, uhm..."touchy feely" ;) ) companies like Meguiar`s actually care about customer satisfaction, so they don`t market their aggressive stuff towards the average consumer the way a lot of companies do.

[Kean]

Most people in this thread are saying that the 2 in one products don`t clean as well as a dedicated cleaner. And so, only if you`re car has been being maintained properly would you go with a 2 in 1. That seems to summarize what I`ve picked up here and there reading about it. ….I do find dedicated APC’s are typically more effective at cleaning (in some cases) than an all-in-one products but I think it’s more (for me) of starting with a fresh, residue-free surface. That’s why even though I do take care of my vehicles, I will occasionally do a dedicated “cleaning” before re-applying a protectant (in those applications where I might actually use one).




But, what`s strange is the products they sell regular consumers. Like, Armor-All is a 2 in 1 and it`s the most universally known car cleaning product there is. Everybody`s had a bottle of Armor-All in there life. And, most people do not take very good care of their cars at all. So, you`d think they`d be selling them dedicated cleaners? Because they all got dirty cars. Or, at least the vast majority of them. ….the product line I was familiar with when I actually used Armor All is different than it is today. In fact, they used to have a dedicated vinyl cleaner with a powder blue label (IIRC) that I found pretty effective. ….easily cleaned the arm rests and panels of my ’69 Charger when I first brought it home back in the 80’s.




ONR, that doesn`t have protectant, and can mix into a quick detailing solution? You gotta mail order that stuff. And, heaven forbid a regular consumer even know what it is. ….actually, if you read Optimums site, ONR does have polymers which supposedly bond to the paint. I know Scottwax has addressed the question of “protection” left behind by ONR and even provided video. ….just an fyi.

[Accumulator]

….the product line I was familiar with when I actually used Armor All is different than it is today. In fact, they used to have a dedicated vinyl cleaner with a powder blue label (IIRC) that I found pretty effective..



I`m still using up some Armor All vinyl cleaner, but mine has a white label with blue graphics and a white sprayhead with a blue nozzle. It works OK, stronger and "soapier" than Griot`s Interior Cleaner, but not nearly as strong as a potent APC mix.