View Full Version : Body Shop Issues
thereisnoyun
12-11-2009, 09:26 AM
Hi all, New to the forums here. Not new to detailing but not too experience either.
I recently got my trunk painted, when I got it back there was massive glare when teh sun hits it. I know they obviously didnt do a good job and most likely used hard compounds, but my question is
I`ve been using 1z products and I`m familiar with them and comfortable with them.
how course should I use? just machien polish or actual paint polish to start?
also if hte paint is baked do I ahve to wait to polish it?
if my question is nto specific enough, and not with the lingo, please help.
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 09:54 AM
When you say "glare", do you mean buffer swirls being highlighted by the bright sun?
Like this?
Rotary Buffer Swirls also called Holograms or Buffer Trails
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/DunstonBefore021.jpg
Cropped out section focusing on the Zig-Zag pattern of Buffer Swirls
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/DunstonBefore02c.jpg
See this thread...
Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls (http://www.autopia.org/forum/autogeek-net/125853-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls.html)
If so, you can remove them pretty easily the sad thing is this is the normal "Horror Story" we always read about assocciated with body shops and dealerships.
:)
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 10:02 AM
Oh yeah...
Since this was your first post...
Welcome to Autopia!
:2thumbs:
Hi all, New to the forums here. Not new to detailing but not too experience either.
I recently got my trunk painted, when I got it back there was massive glare when teh sun hits it. I know they obviously didnt do a good job and most likely used hard compounds, but my question is
I`ve been using 1z products and I`m familiar with them and comfortable with them.
how course should I use? just machien polish or actual paint polish to start?
also if hte paint is baked do I ahve to wait to polish it?
if my question is nto specific enough, and not with the lingo, please help.
It`s just a hologram effect from a bad polish job.
As far as how course should you go...start with the lightest first. If that doesn`t work jump up.
You can usually polish it right away. What you don`t want is to seal it in with a wax or sealant. I`d let the paint cure a couple more months before sealing / waxing it. But as long as the polish doesn`t have any sealants or waxes go ahead. Oh and the bake job at the paint shop is not like at the factory. It`s basically so they can get to working on the car faster without leaving prints.
thereisnoyun
12-11-2009, 10:40 AM
yes, it looks jsut like that. I learn something :) hologram look yes.
no wax and sealant? the 1z metal polish ahs some wax in it, would this make it a problem?
what are possible complication with sealing new paint? I`ve never worked new paint before so these intricacies are a bit new to me.
Thank alot guys for hte quick response. Great community here. should of joined sooner.
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 11:03 AM
yes, it looks jsut like that. I learn something :) hologram look yes.
no wax and sealant? the 1z metal polish ahs some wax in it, would this make it a problem?
Don`t use metal polish on car paint, it will probably not help.
what are possible complication with sealing new paint? I`ve never worked new paint before so these intricacies are a bit new to me.
Thank alot guys for hte quick response. Great community here. should of joined sooner.
The short answer is all paint manufactures recommend waiting at least 30 days air-cure before you seal the paint and most recommend longer, in the 60 to 90 day range but 30 days is a pretty good window of time to wait and after that most people go ahead and seal the paint.
Sealing the paint won`t fix the problem though, you or someone else needs to remove the swirls through a polishing or abrading process.
In a perfect world you should be able to take it back to the body shop and demand they do it right the second time. The problem is that if they couldn`t do it right the first time they probably cannot do it right ever so this is just another "Horror Story" about a body shop on a detailing discussion forum.
If you like I can dig up dozens of stories from people with your same experience.
You have three basic options,
Learn to leave with it, after 30 days apply some wax and this will make it look better until the wax wears off and then you can wax it again.
Learn to remove the swirls yourself, it`s not hat hard, that`s what people like me and others on forums do is teach people how to remover swirls.
Pay someone to remove them for you.
Let us know which path you want to walk down...
:)
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 11:05 AM
Here`s a fairly detailed article I wrote on this topic back in 2004...
Paint Needs to Breathe (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3704)
Kind of goes over what`s what when it comes to fresh paint.
:)
David Fermani
12-11-2009, 11:32 AM
Mike - have you (or anyone) ever seen paint that failed from prematurely waxing/sealing it? Sorry to go a little off topic. :)
Mike - have you (or anyone) ever seen paint that failed from prematurely waxing/sealing it? Sorry to go a little off topic. :)
I have, on my black Civic a while back. My painter insisted that it was ok to wax and insisted that I did. Last time I listened to them on paint care though. LOL My paint NEVER cured properly. A year later the clear was so soft that anything would scratch it. Honestly, a cotton ball blowing over the surface would leave marks it was so soft. LOL
yes, it looks jsut like that. I learn something :) hologram look yes.
no wax and sealant? the 1z metal polish ahs some wax in it, would this make it a problem?
what are possible complication with sealing new paint? I`ve never worked new paint before so these intricacies are a bit new to me.
Thank alot guys for hte quick response. Great community here. should of joined sooner.
I`m sure you mean the Metallic Polish. Yes, it`s a wax so don`t use it.
It will not cure properly if sealed before it cures.
David Fermani
12-11-2009, 11:47 AM
Bob - Any idea what kind of clear they used? (some clears are super soft, but your`s sounds rediculously too soft) Also, how soon after did you seal it?
Bob - Any idea what kind of clear they used? (some clears are super soft, but your`s sounds rediculously too soft) Also, how soon after did you seal it?
I can not remember off hand. I know it was the same they used on my bumper and I let that cure for about 3 months and it was always fine.
I sealed it the day I got it back. So probably the day after paint.
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 12:03 PM
Mike - have you (or anyone) ever seen paint that failed from prematurely waxing/sealing it? Sorry to go a little off topic. :)
No, never. I`ve also posted this multiple times of the years when someone has asked me the same question you have asked.
That said, my background of working for multiple different product manufactures has taught me the discipline of always recommending to people that they follow the manufactures recommendations, not the recommendations of someone posting on a discussion forum.
It would not be professional to make a recommendation for sealing paint against what DuPont or Sikkens recommends. Other people do it all the time but I don`t and won`t because for most people, waiting for 30 days won`t kill them or their paint.
Rarely do I meet someone with a Fresh Paint Emergency, in that they MUST get a coat of wax or a coating of a paint sealant onto their car`s fresh paint as quickly as possible.
I understand that after getting a panel or an entire car painted that some people have to put that car back into service immediately but even so, most modern clear coats are pretty stout and will be fine for the next 30 days without a coat of wax.
People have the option to also polish with a non-wax, non-sealant type product and while this isn`t the best protection I`m a big believer that something is better than nothing and anything is better than a poke in the eye.
If someone does feel they have a Fresh Paint Emergency and is willing to seal the surface of fresh paint before 30 days have passed I also don`t have a problem with them doing this as long as they understand the manufactures recommendations and then of course understand they are going outside the manufactures recommendations.
But to answer your question, I`ve never seen paint fail when it was sealed before 30 days have passed.
For me personally, when I`ve painted my own cars, when I`ve had my cars painted I have never sealed the fresh paint until after 30 days air-cure.
In the near future when I paint a car or have a car painted will also wait for at least 30 days before I seal the paint.
I`m a big fan of,
Better safe than sorry
Especially when it comes to something as encompassing as covering a car with a thin, usually expensive coating of paint.
I taught my first hands-on detailing class in 1988, even have pictures of it and I cannot cite a single time where I`ve ever recommended to a person to go outside a manufactures directions for sealing paint and I`ve been asked this question a zillion times.
I completely understand where this topical conversation trends to go, i.e. paint is chemically cured, it`s baked, it`s dry, northing`s going to hurt it, etc., but I`m in this industry for the long run and while I wish paint companies would come out with car paint that is user friendly for the car owner, I also prefer to support their recommendations as generally speaking, a manufacture knows their product best.
Great question!
Mike_Phillips
12-11-2009, 12:20 PM
There`s at least one company that claims to offer a fresh-paint safe wax, Auto Int I think?
There`s at least one company that claims to offer a fresh-paint safe wax, Auto Int I think?
Wizards does. They offer a breathable sealant. And now that I think of it my painter only uses Wizards products and he probably thinks all sealants are created equal.