For all you TOUCHLESS washers out there

[pingable]

Do you high pressure rinse before you do a foam soaking...



I am going to give it a whirl and try a touchless wash routine.



Or maybe I should just take this in baby steps and SEE whether a foam dwell time with traditional mitt wash helps cut down the marring...on soft paint.



Just looking to refine the technique. Washing IMO takes precedence more over polishing, etc.

[SuperBee364]

Yes, i do an extremely thorough HP rinse fitst.



The two most important things, IME/O, for the best touch-free results: the LSP and the soap.



You need an LSP that freely gives up whatever is sticking to it. Overall, wax-based LSP`s are best at this, as `nuba swells when it gets wet. Some sealants are good at spitting stuff off, too, like UPGP and 1000P. DWG (touted as a glaze) has a sealant base, and it does well with touch free washs, too. My *least* favorite for touch free use is zaino.



Most car soaps have very little real, detergent-type of action, they concentrate on being a lubrication for your wash mitt. You want a *soap*; something that is meant to chemically clean ( but gentle enough to not take off your LSP in the process). Right now, my fav for this is CG`s Citrus Wash N Gloss.



Let us know how it goes for you.

[pingable]

SUP -



I have read your mixture....I plan to do 2oz CG and 2oz Griots and then test/adjust from there.





It will be CR Spotless feeding the PW.



I`ve yet to take this to the ~lawn blower~ dryer technique though.

We`ll see depending on dirt level, but I`ve always tended to do WAUD with any QD as a lube when drying for ages now.

[IC3DT3]

SuperBee,



In addition to UPGP and FK1000P, are there any other sealant you recommend? OOS maybe?



Also, do you have any specific waxes you recommend? I think I read in another post you like Vintage?

[efnfast]

Unless you`re using some really harsh chemicals that just demolish the dirt (and probably any wax and trim you have), I don`t think it`s possible to do a 100% autopean wash (meaning 0 marring and 0 dirt) with a touchless method - you need some form of aggitation to remove the base layer of dirt that all the pressure washing in the world won`t remove.

[SuperBee364]

SUP -



I have read your mixture....I plan to do 2oz CG and 2oz Griots and then test/adjust from there.





It will be CR Spotless feeding the PW.



I`ve yet to take this to the ~lawn blower~ dryer technique though.

We`ll see depending on dirt level, but I`ve always tended to do WAUD with any QD as a lube when drying for ages now.



Anxious to hear your results!




SuperBee,



In addition to UPGP and FK1000P, are there any other sealant you recommend? OOS maybe?



Also, do you have any specific waxes you recommend? I think I read in another post you like Vintage?



Yeah, it`s true that I do love Vintage. It is *unreal* how well and how *easily* it comes clean.



Unfortunately, DWG, UPGP and 1000P are the only sealants I`ve tried that really pass the touchless wash test. There`s still quite a list of sealants left to try, though.




Unless you`re using some really harsh chemicals that just demolish the dirt (and probably any wax and trim you have), I don`t think it`s possible to do a 100% autopean wash (meaning 0 marring and 0 dirt) with a touchless method - you need some form of aggitation to remove the base layer of dirt that all the pressure washing in the world won`t remove.



Ah yes, I`ve seen/responded to exactly this kind of post before, many times in my touchfree wash posts/rants. :) And honestly, I don`t blame you; it`s pretty tough to imagine someone getting their car *clean* to Autopian levels using a completely touch free method, especially if their car is *dirty*. I`m here to tell ya, it *can* be done, and I do it *regularly*. I have a thread around here with pictures to prove it, and fellow Autopian Greg Nichols has seen me do it many times. I stand by my method 100%. :)



It took well over a year of trying out different soaps and LSP`s, but the results have been worth the effort. Well, and it was kinda fun, too.:woot2:

[Greg Nichols]

SUP -



I have read your mixture....I plan to do 2oz CG and 2oz Griots and then test/adjust from there.





It will be CR Spotless feeding the PW.



I`ve yet to take this to the ~lawn blower~ dryer technique though.

We`ll see depending on dirt level, but I`ve always tended to do WAUD with any QD as a lube when drying for ages now.





I would NOT use your CR to feed the PW. The DI water is harsh on brass and other metals. I have seen it oxidate brass parts. Use the DI water to rinse only.



Cheers,

GREG

[Greg Nichols]

Unless you`re using some really harsh chemicals that just demolish the dirt (and probably any wax and trim you have), I don`t think it`s possible to do a 100% autopean wash (meaning 0 marring and 0 dirt) with a touchless method - you need some form of aggitation to remove the base layer of dirt that all the pressure washing in the world won`t remove.



I have learned from SuperBee, and do it all the time. If you let your car get pretty dirty it might be harder, but allowing your car to get that dirty is not Autopean either:nono lol.



Granted sometimes I take my exploder off road and it gets very dirty I just do a double wash and break out the lambs wool mitt if necessary using a two bucket system in conjunction to the foam cannon. All the marring I get are not from washing/drying but others rubbing against the car





Cheers,

GREG

[nonsensez9]

now that you guys mention it.... I used UPGP on my mustang this summer and primarily used the coin-op once or twice a week. It worked pretty good and very little dirt wiped off on the dry towel.



On the other hand... I recently used NXT 2.0 on my Xterra and the coin-op doesn`t work as well on it. I`ll have to try the UPGP on it sometime.

[salty]

This was my summer routine, once or twice a week.



476 on white car, $2 at wand coin-op with R.O. rinse and a short highway run to dry.



Some brake dust and a few water spots but rinsed mostly clean for just over a month.



Proper wash and another layer of 476 and that was about it for the summer.

[proman3998]

Yes, i do an extremely thorough HP rinse fitst.



The two most important things, IME/O, for the best touch-free results: the LSP and the soap.



You need an LSP that freely gives up whatever is sticking to it. Overall, wax-based LSP`s are best at this, as `nuba swells when it gets wet. Some sealants are good at spitting stuff off, too, like UPGP and 1000P. DWG (touted as a glaze) has a sealant base, and it does well with touch free washs, too. My *least* favorite for touch free use is zaino.



Most car soaps have very little real, detergent-type of action, they concentrate on being a lubrication for your wash mitt. You want a *soap*; something that is meant to chemically clean ( but gentle enough to not take off your LSP in the process). Right now, my fav for this is CG`s Citrus Wash N Gloss.



Let us know how it goes for you.



why is your least favorite zaino? i use all zaino products on my car and i love them, i also want to go to a touchless type wash....do you think i will be dissapointed?

[Dsoto87]

I think its his least favorite because it doesnt release dirt/grime as well as the other sealants. (I thought I saw him mention that before)



UPGP is awesome at releasing grime. Nothing sticks to that stuff. Just using a regular water hose I can get the car 95% dirt free.

[proman3998]

I think its his least favorite because it doesnt release dirt/grime as well as the other sealants. (I thought I saw him mention that before)



UPGP is awesome at releasing grime. Nothing sticks to that stuff. Just using a regular water hose I can get the car 95% dirt free.



sorry, im not sure what upgp is? as for the zaino, how much will the dirt hang on to it? do you think a touchless wash is practical with zaino?

[SuperBee364]

I think its his least favorite because it doesnt release dirt/grime as well as the other sealants. (I thought I saw him mention that before)



UPGP is awesome at releasing grime. Nothing sticks to that stuff. Just using a regular water hose I can get the car 95% dirt free.



Yes, that`s right...



Anytime I find myself in the position of saying anything potentially negative about Zaino, it makes me nervous. Zainoites can be some of the most fanatical, um, "enthusiastic" people I`ve ever discussed anything with on the internet. So in an attempt to keep them appeased, I do like to point out the positives of the product first. Zaino is one of the best *looking* sealants on the market. It *looks* great, and it *lasts a long time*. But that is all it does. When it comes to protecting your car from dirt, water spots, etc. it falls flat. I used Zaino for years, and in fact I do still use it. Some of their products are still my go-to`s even.



And I`m not saying that Zaino won`t come clean when you wash it, I`m saying that it requires more mechanical energy (more mechanical energy than a pressure washer is capable of applying) in order to get dirt off of Zaino than other, easier-to-clean sealants. A wash mitt will clean up a Zaino`d car toot sweet, but I`d rather eat lint than use a wash mitt to wash a car on a regular basis.



Most people that have problems getting good touch free results give up way too soon; it just takes some experimentation with what LSP is going to work for you. The soap is pretty much already decided: grab some CG`s Citrus Wash N Gloss. It has some of the best chemical cleaning abilities around in a car soap that is still gentle enough to leave your LSP intact. (Although I am experimenting with this quite a bit right now... I`m formulating my own car soap that will hopefully boost the cleaning power of CWNG without stripping the LSP.)



It really is fun to experiment around with stuff to find a combination that works well for your touch free washes.



Some other stuff to think about, regarding all these touch free shenanigans...



Even if you aren`t able to get your car completely clean by using your touch free method, you *are* removing * a lot* of abrasives by first using a touch free method, then following up with whatever other method you want to get your car completely clean. All those abrasives that were previously on your car are now gone for your later, touch-based wash, and can`t swirl your paint. So preceding your regular wash process with a touch free wash will certainly lower the amount of wash based marring you`re going to get with your regular regimen.



I try to go in increasing levels of aggressiveness, to get the least amount of marring for each bit of contamination removed:



1. Touch free, then stop if I`m satisfied. If not, then:



2. Layer of foam, BHB in soap bucket, gently use BHB on entire car. Stop if clean. If not, then:



3. ONR wash with Eurow Shag MF`s. Whatever is left on the paint by this time is very, very small, and when combined with ONR`s voodoo powers, you`ll get little (if any) marring.



Using the above three steps, I`m usually able to take a car that has zero LSP on it and go from filthy dirty to completely clean with *very little* marring. Lot`s of guys would just skip steps one and two and go straight to the ONR, and that`s cool, too. Lot`s of different ways to do stuff, for sure. But IMO, you are least likely to get any marring by taking the time to do the three steps.



The LSP you have on your car is a very, very important choice. It determines exactly how much kinetic energy is going to be required to remove every single molecule of dirt that gets on your car. And it is this amount of kinetic energy that is going to determine how much marring that molecule of dirt is going to cause to your car when it is removed. If you can get an LSP that will let go of dirt with nothing more than an HP spray of water, you`re in great shape. Next best would be an LSP that comes completely clean with the flick of a BHB bristle. Last, would be one that requires you smash that dirt particle against the clear coat with a wash mitt and scrub it like a piece of sand paper.



LPS`s vary *greatly* in their abilities to release contamination. IMO, it`s worth investing good, solid amounts of cash in finding some that work for you.



Well, so much for Supe`s caffeinated rant of the day. :) I`m off to detail some cars..... :D

[efnfast]

3. ONR wash with Eurow Shag MF`s. Whatever is left on the paint by this time is very, very small, and when combined with ONR`s voodoo powers, you`ll get little (if any) marring.





ONR as #3; hmmmm, that`s it, ONR fanatics attack! :LOLOL





Btw, I know you really like the BHBs, but how can you safely put them ahead of ONR+mf. Atleast with the ONR+mf you can go panel by panel and examine your cloth - if it has any dirt on it, stick it in the washing solution and rub it out then and there and the cloth is clean. With a brush you really can`t see if dirt is adhered to it.......