NobleWash & Other waterless washes?

[pi1ot]

I`ve recently started having Joe from SuperiorShine.com come down to do my car and those of my friends.



For maintenance washes, he has a "waterless wash" that he does called Noble Wash that he helped developed.



My friends and I are pretty ignorant on this and are not sure how good this can be compared to a "regular wash."



I personally have a black car and am not sure how you can spray and wipe down a car without the dirt and dust being rubbed against the paint which would result in swirls.



Is there any article explaining how this works and how you can use less than a cup of water to wash a car?



Thanks in advance to anyone that replies.

[RTexasF]

Never heard of Noble Wash but this is the one that started it all some 20 years ago..........



Wet Paint Automotive Polishing Glaze: cleans, polishes and protects vehicle surfaces. (http://www.wetpaintglaze.com/index.html)

[reparebrise]

I have a little knowledge concerning waterless washing, so I may be able to answer some of your interrogations.



A good waterless wash product contains surfactants, these lift and dissolve the dirt. One dissolved the same surfactants emulsify(encapsulate would be another term) the dirt, and protect the paint from the dirt. Lubricating agents further protect the paint. The newer generations of waterless wash are zwitterionic, meaning the have ions that are at the same time negative and positive, attracting and repelling the dirt at the same time. Additionally a good waterless wash has fast acting polymers that protect the surface, and leave behind a protection like that of a QD.



Like any type of washing, technique also has a lot to do with your paints safety (see the following YouTube - waterless car wash ). Many water less washes are truly waterless, meaning they are petrochemical based, these have limitations. They can`t be used on a wet car. Waterbased ones can be used on a car that has been pre-sprayed to remove excess dirt(a hybrid washing technique) .



Also look for such things as product separation, if you need to shake before using, or it has deposits in the bottom of the container, more than likely it contains some sort of filler, that instead of preventing scratches, instead hides them, never a good thing.



Noble Wash is one of the best on the market, and Joe`s technique is above reproach, if anyone cares for your paints condition it`s Joe(I have trained with him, and to sum up the experience, detailing GOD would be appropriate).

[pi1ot]

reparebrise, thank you very much for that detailed reply.



Yes, I`m 90% sold just because Joe is taking responsibility for it. I just wanted to know how it can possibly not scratch the paint, but now I know.



Thanks!

[longdx]

+1



Nice reply, "reparebrise". Thank you for the excellent comparison between water and petro based waterless washes and technique.

[reparebrise]

Your welcome, and feel free to ask any other questions.



Using a good waterless product is a method that is slowly gaining popularity, both with car owners and professionals. When using a good product it allows both pro and armature to do a more thorough job of cleaning the paint than with traditional methods. The waterless methods also cuts down on wash time considerably, allowing a pro to make more profit, or more importantly maintain his pricing, or even lower it in the face of competition.



Before you jump in as say what about the wheel wells and engine, I am the first to admit it has its limitations, and thats also where the need for a waterbased product is much more evident. IF need be part of the car can be done with the pressure washer(removing caked on mud, cleaning the wheel wells, cleaning the engine, ect) and the majority of the cars painted surface can be treated with the waterless wash.



When using a waterless wash you are concentrating on one panel at a time, and before moving onto the next you have washed, dried, and protected that panel, and all the time you can see exactly what you are doing. A traditional wash covers the surface with water, then soap, then you dry it, in the 2 first steps you lose sight of the surface, and if you miss a spot, it will show up when drying.



For those of us who do not go off-roading with our cars waterless washing(again using the proper products and methods) is a safe, fast and easy way to maintain our cars. Those that have fast polymerization characteristics(generally the newer waterbased waterless washes that do not have fillers) also are great window cleaners, as they flash off fast, leave behind a little protection for the glass(reducing water spotting in some areas) and leaving your paints surface dry, meaning no streaking when you run your fingers over the surface.



Another peculiarity`s of some waterless washes is that they are non building, and self replacing for lack of a better term. This means that the protection that is left behind today will be removed by the product you apply next week, and with it take away surface contaminants. This reduces the need to clay your paint reduces the possibility of scratching once again, and for owners of light colored cars in northern climates, reduces the rust spots that form around in bedded contaminants in the paints surface, as those contaminants are carried away when you wash.

[imported_WCD]

I think I was the film guy on that video! Yes, it works as described and we usually end up selling a 20oz bottle to customers as we explain how they can keep the paint looking good and protected in between our visits- most of my customers call about every 4 months or so- not weekly.



Joe is also someone with whom I have spent a lot of time.. on Air Force One and at his house. He does not use ANYTHING that he does not believe in and has a far and wide background in auto paint- not just detailing.



I am using it on glass in low temps and it`s the best "clarity" type cleaner I`ve ever used- sounds like a commercial at this point, but on glass, it is just very good.



Anyway, you are in good hands with Joe and the Noble Wash.



Rob

[Superior Shine]

It took me 6 to 7 months to warm up to it. We use it on 90% of the vehicle we detail now.

[Scottwax]

I use waterless washes (EcoTouch and an Optimum one that is in development) on my road bike. Both seem to work very well and it makes keeping my bike clean a lot easier and protects the shifters, chain, etc from excess water.

[Mark77]

Why not use ONR instead?? Seems smarter than that stuff.. I mean you need a lot of water to clean all those towels you will need to get a dirty car clean.. So it`s hardly a water less wash anyway..

[Superior Shine]

We use two on most cars and as much as four on dirtier cars. I use less water to wash towels that have been used to wash 25-30 cars than one traditional car wash.

[reparebrise]

Why not use ONR instead?? Seems smarter than that stuff.. I mean you need a lot of water to clean all those towels you will need to get a dirty car clean.. So it`s hardly a water less wash anyway..



Mark



Great question, first off ONR is a great product, and has its uses for sure. Secondly the term Waterless wash is a BIG misleader, in fact the better ones contain about 90% water, for sake of a better description lets call it a Bucket and Hose Less Wash(BHLW).



When cleaning a car with BHLW the average towel consumption is 2, and if you want to really work at keeping towel consumption to a minimum, there are ways to reduce it even further(the towel used to buff one car becomes the wash towel for the next, so you can effectively do 10 cars with 11 towels).



ONR and BHLW in our shops use about the same amount of towels, that is to say with BHLW we soil 2 towles, and with ONR we soil 1 large WW MF towel, both taking about the same space in the washing machine. When using BHLW we use about 100ml (10ml product concentrate, 90 ml DI water) to clean a car. When using ONR we consume about 1/2 gallon of water, so about 20 times the water, but taking into consideration a traditional wet wash ONR is to say the least a spectacular water savings tool(not to mention time, effort, resources, space, clean up, waste discharge.....).



For ONR use(and a lot of you will cringe at our method) we do not use 2 buckets, and we use the same bucket for at least 8-12 cars(we mix up 5 gallons of ONR and use that mixture until there is only 1 gallon left in the bucket. The science behind ONR allows anyone to do so without fear of marring, as it works as described(if not better than) , meaning it takes the dirt prisoner, and confines it to the bottom of the bucket, keeping it away from the wash medium. Plus in our shops we rarely just wash a car, we are detailers, and not a car wash, so cleaning is only one of many steps to the final product, and any marring we could possibly cause. we will remove it in the next steps anyways. That said our ultra low water ONR use has never caused any issues. IF we are just washing a car we will use the BHLW, as the finish it leaves behind is superior to that of ONR(and we all know ONR compared to a regular wash is out of this world) , and both ONR and BHLW take about the same amount of time .

[bobscal]

what about steam car washes

[HiDefDetailer]

Pilot1 - you can trust guys like Joe, reparebrise and Scott when they say that Waterless Washing is safe and effective. So I don`t have to re-state all the positives of using waterless cleaners.



The biggest concern is avoiding any product that contains, petroleum or kerosene or any caustic lubricant. Waterless isn`t synonymous with organic, so always ask what`s in it.



Like Scott said, it allows you to be a lot more surgical with your cleaning efforts.



Now, I`d be lying if I told you that Waterless is ideal for 100% in every dirty car scenario, but NO product is. That`s why you have hundreds if not thousands different choices in polishes, pads, glass cleaners, brushes, towels & etc.



Once I learned about the Waterless Detailing - I totally converted. Now I own a premium line of Waterless Organic cleaners. That`s how much I believe in it. I love it and my clients love it even more.

[Tylan_CA]

Mark



When using BHLW we use about 100ml (10ml product concentrate, 90 ml DI water) to clean a car.



IF we are just washing a car we will use the BHLW, as the finish it leaves behind is superior to that of ONR(and we all know ONR compared to a regular wash is out of this world) , and both ONR and BHLW take about the same amount of time .







Which brand of BHLW are you using if you don`t mind me asking? Do you use that on tires with steamer as well?



Also where can I purchase Noble Wash?