Obsessed, but I know my place...jet black bmw issues

[btmlinedan]

Hey guys, i`ve been lurking around here for quite some time always trying to learn in my spare time. I have tried to get most of the major swirls and scratches out but realize i`m just fighting a losing battle. I love having a deep rich black car just just stands out from the rest, but since I have started the kitchen remodel, I don`t have the extra funds to just go and just try out new products.



WHAT IM LOOKING FOR, is something I can `layer` or work in over and over and over again to increasingly make the car look ____ (insert wetter, deeper, richer, glossier, etc) . I watched a griot`s dvd a while back about some crazy wax method of putting it on, letting it set for 3 hours, doing another layer over that wax, then letting it setup for another 3 hours, then another layer over BOTH layers of wax, then waiting 12 hours, then pulling it off. Today, I tried that with some nxt wax..and yes i took pictures.



I am down for hard work, I am down for taking my time and letting the car sit in the garage ( i have a dd and a bike and the weather is getting nice ) but I really want this car to be a show stopper. . . I know what you`re thinking...if you want it to be a show stopper, get ready to never drive it b/c of swirls etc.



so my question to YOU THE EXPERTS (not me, im not expert) what ONE product can I buy that I can layer over and over again to `increase` depth and gloss? I`m guessing a glaze or wax or something? liquid based or paste?







As far as a buffer, I have a cheap one, and I used it w/ the 6060 compound on every other car (that`s not black) and has worked just fine for me, but with the bmw black it`s been a bit tougher. that 6060 put some micro scratches in it so I used the white stuff (finesse it II, what the shop recommended) on a white pad and the black stuff (3m foam polishing glaze 05996) w/ the black pad shown. I also clayed the bar prior to any of that. i Used the meguiars stage 3 carnauba wax a few weeks ago, then recently did the NXT wax w/ the 3 hour / 12 hour deal. I guess i`m just telling you my prior steps so anyone can help suggest anything. Thanks again...



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[btmlinedan]

...bump? :woot:

[AeroCleanse]

Whats your budget like? If you want the deepest/wet look then I think you need to look at a wax with the highest amount of carnuba in it.

[btmlinedan]

i don`t mind spending a few bucks on a product that will rock, just can`t be spending money on products that wont work, setting them on the shelf, and blindly guessing & spending on more products that may not achieve exactly what I want...feel me? :spot



Any suggestions?

[SuperBee364]

I think the reason you haven`t gotten much in the way of responses is because BMW Jet Black paint is one of the very most difficult paints to correct and/or maintain. Some guys on here (i`m one of them) flat out refuse to detail BMW Jet Black. It is one of the softest clear coats out there.



There are *zero* shortcuts to maintaining BMW Jet Black; there`s no one magic product. It takes a very well thought out supply of products to get that paint looking good, and another bunch of products (and *technique*) to keep it swirl free. Any really worthwhile post to explain all this would be novel in length. There`s just no shortcuts for Bimmer Black.



Most (actually, all) you need to know is already here on the forums, it`s just a matter of taking the time to read/learn it all.

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Having owned a 98 328 with the same paint, I know the hardships that go along with it and I know the relief of selling it haha... Super is right on... there`s no one magic product... the shine and depth is all in the prep work and then maintenance is key... no wax will make it deep enough to justify spending a lot of money and no wax will cover all the swirls on it if it`s not maintained properly..



My advice is to put away the rotary, pick up a G110 or PC RO, then buy some 5.5" lake country pads along with some Meg`s #9 and #80... #80 with orange and/or white will correct almost anything but stuff that`s just too deep (and after seeing what you`ve already done as far as polishing goes, I would definitely steer clear of trying to go for the deeper stuff) and #9 finishes down great after #80... #9 does have some/a lot fillers, but you`ll thank me for the suggestion later... basically what I did was every 3 months or so, I would do a very quick 1-step polish with #9 and a white LC pad on a PC to keep the paint in `perfect` condition.



After the initial correction (I did a detail on it with M80/8006 pad with rotary, then M80/LC white 5.5" with PC and followed with M09/LC white 5.5" initially) band between these 1-step maintenance `corrections`, I washed it every 1-2 weeks depending on how dirty it got, and would always wash by going through the touchless automatic first, then straight home for the wash... I waxed every 2-3 washes since the touchless had some strong soap, taking off wax sooner than expected (I later found a touchless that has more mild soaps, but that`s beyond the point).



I don`t think I have to mention how to properly wash it once you`re doing the hand wash though haha... 2-3 buckets, rinse mitt every 1/4 panel basically and be anal about everything.



Good luck.

[Accumulator]

btmlinedan- I`d steer clear of the 6060 on that car in the future...I don`t use products like that all that much on *hard* clear. It`s simply too aggressive for that paint. The FI-II might be too.



I agree with the Meg`s #9 suggestion but the 3M 05996 might be just about the same. You might try Collinite brand wax or just stick with the NXT. IF you really want to apply wax all the time I like Souveran on black, but Meg`s #26 isn`t bad either and it`s cheap.



I`d concentrate on trying to hide the marring, the other appearance characteristics ougtha take care of themselves (to the extent possible on that paint in the real world) as long as the car doesn`t look all marred up.



The Griot`s "layer then buff off" method probably sells a lot of his BOS wax, but it doesn`t work. It can`t. The only wax that actually remains on the paint is the immeasurably thin layer that`s actually in contact with the paint. Everything else gets buffed off; 99% of the first coat and every bit of every coat on top of that ends up on the buffing towel ;) If you want to do something special when waxing, do a spit-shine (search on the username Nick T, IMO he posted the best info on the subject).



But IMO the #1 thing is to sort out the wash regimen so you don`t continually reinstill marring.

[Thats Fresh]

Dan, the previous posters pretty much covered it. i myself own a JetBlack E46 M3. and yes its more like a part time job, haha. there is also another JetBlack bmw. for past years, ive loved the NXT2.0 wax. its an OTC product and great wax for in between. and it actually enhances the alread polished JB bmws.



*nice e39.

[tmg19103]

I used to have an E39 in metallic grey. Great color for not showing dirt/scratches.



Now I have a jet black Saab 9-5 Aero, and I can`t imagine a softer clearcoat than what I have.



I ended up taking it to a pro to get all the micro marring and scratches out of it, but told him not to wax it.



I put a coat of UPGP on in his shop and gave it 30 minutes to dry before I drove off. Next week did my ultra-safe wash and put on 3 coats of UPGP with 24 hours for each to cure.



This all caused some very minor micro marring on what was a perfectly clean car, but once the UPGP cures, it is like armor - though the car will still mar easily given how soft the clearcoat is, but UPGP looks great on black.



I top the UPGP with P21S 100% which I do every two weeks. It layers, covers the very minor micro marring and gives the deep wet look.

[btmlinedan]

thanks gusy for the recommendations and helpful tips. I`ll put the 6060 away, should i keep that away from all black cars or just bmw jet?



I do the 2 bucket wash method, and never go through any drive throughs, it`s always hand washed. top to bottom, being extremely careful, and trying to only pass over each part once (kinda like the ONR method)



accumulater-- if the Fe II is too abrasive, why isn`t it pulling out deep scratches? does megs 26 hide scratches? would it compare to nxt 2.0? Is there a glaze that can fill in stuff?



is the buffer I have good enough for `attempting` to major problems? Is there a big difference in the lake county pads opposed to the 3m ones I have now?



sorry for all the questions, but still trying to figure this stuff out! thanks again guys...

[WaxManRonnie]

No offense man, but I think it looks damn good. Like others have stated, I would not use the rotary anymore. I would pick up some carnuba to top it off or use the Collinite 845.

I think it looks great though. But take some pics in the daylight

so we can really see it.

[btmlinedan]

I got the rotary to "learn" and b/c i wasn`t sure what i wanted / needed. I practiced on a few other cars (with what I had) and they came out great, just after reading all the **** about jet black I`m a little more hesitant.

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

thanks gusy for the recommendations and helpful tips. I`ll put the 6060 away, should i keep that away from all black cars or just bmw jet?



I do the 2 bucket wash method, and never go through any drive throughs, it`s always hand washed. top to bottom, being extremely careful, and trying to only pass over each part once (kinda like the ONR method)



accumulater-- if the Fe II is too abrasive, why isn`t it pulling out deep scratches? does megs 26 hide scratches? would it compare to nxt 2.0? Is there a glaze that can fill in stuff?



is the buffer I have good enough for `attempting` to major problems? Is there a big difference in the lake county pads opposed to the 3m ones I have now?



sorry for all the questions, but still trying to figure this stuff out! thanks again guys...



First of all, you should put the 6060 away simply because it`s not working right now, on the E39... it might work on another jet black bmw, so put it away for this car... as for FE II being too abrasive... it won`t just pull out scratches just because it`s abrasive... some scratches are just too deep for even the most aggressive compounds/polishes out there, and even some scratches not as deep aren`t worth removing at the expense of the clear coat... as for pads, people just recommend what works for them, which is why both accum and I recommend the smaller LC pads... they work well with a RO machine



Lastly, the buffer you have is good for major problems, but `major` on this paint is minor compared to major on something like Audi paint, which is why we`re recommending a RO instead of the rotary... start with something less aggressive and move up, but I repeat, considering all the polishing you`ve already done with the rotary, I`d strongly advise you stay away from anything more than a LIGHT step of m105/orange 5.5" pad on RO... even that can be too aggressive...

[Accumulator]

thanks gusy for the recommendations and helpful tips. I`ll put the 6060 away, should i keep that away from all black cars or just bmw jet?



I`d only use that for working on *VERY* serious flaws on rather hard paint. I don`t think you`ll really have much of *any* use for it under normal circumstances. IMO you`d be much better off using something else if/when you need an aggressive product.




accumulater-- if the Fe II is too abrasive, why isn`t it pulling out deep scratches?



Something can be too aggressive to finish out nicely but still too gentle to get out deeper marring (at least without using a very aggressive pad/technique).



The "deep scratches"..if the 6060 didn`t get them out they`re possibly too deep to be safely removed. Eh..this is an example of why you`d be better off with a more modern compound (e.g., Meguiar`s M105) instead of the 3M Extra Cut.



Using products like these, it`s not uncommon to do many different steps- the very aggressive compound, then something a bit milder to remove the compounding marks, then a final very mild polish. The 3M PI-3000 system is designed to encompass at least three such levels.




does megs 26 hide scratches? would it compare to nxt 2.0? Is there a glaze that can fill in stuff?



I find the hiding abilities of *all* products to be vastly over-rated. NXT 2.0 probably hides more than most products and using it *after* #9 should do about as much concealing as you`re gonna get. You can try adding a coat of #26 on top of the NXT if you think you`d like it better that way and #26 *is* a nice wax for black paint.




is the buffer I have good enough for `attempting` to major problems? Is there a big difference in the lake county pads opposed to the 3m ones I have now?



Yes, but it`s probably leaving holograms (which might not be too obvious due to all the fillers in the 3M glaze. I know that *I* couldn`t get a decent final finish with that polisher (or with any other rotary) but that`s just me.



Different people like different pads.



I wonder how you`d do with a final pass using 3M Ultrafina on the matching 3M blue pad :think: That`s the current final step in 3M`s general finishing system.

[GS4_Fiend]

Greg has got some quality products on his website. Automotive Detailing Supplies and How To Guide - Detailed Image (http://www.detailedimage.com)