Should I follow 106ff with P085rd

[jw]

Will following Menzerna 106ff with PO85rd add any noticeable gloss or depth to the paint? The car is a black Porsche 911 and I`ll be using a PC. I have a rotary but can`t seem to get it to finish down with leaving buffer trails.

[LoiG37]

PO85RD would definitely help, its called "jeweling" the paint, enhancing the gloss.

[jw]

Does the "jeweling" work with a pc? Also, what pad should I use? I was thinking a black LC CCS pad.

[Legacy]

Black will work, but blue would be better.

[Legacy]

BTW take you time doing this last step. Jeweling can take as long as polishing.

[jw]

Thanks Legacy, Does blue have more bite or less than black? I have white or black. Also, what`s the process for jeweling? Is it the same as polishing?

[redfarsi]

Its pretty much the same. Just different product and pad.

[Legacy]

Thanks Legacy, Does blue have more bite or less than black? I have white or black. Also, what`s the process for jeweling? Is it the same as polishing?



Both are finishing pads, but the blue is softer. It is the same process as polishing, however, most will rush this last step in order to get the LSP on. After jeweling I use a paint cleaner before waxing. Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion is what I use. The outcome is dramatic. I almost hate to touch it at this point, but it must be topped with a wax. Swissvax cleaning fluid has been highly recommended and I have it on order. Little pricecy, but oh well, you`ll never know until you try it.

[YankeeFan]

Both are finishing pads, but the blue is softer. It is the same process as polishing, however, most will rush this last step in order to get the LSP on. After jeweling I use a paint cleaner before waxing. Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion is what I use. The outcome is dramatic. I almost hate to touch it at this point, but it must be topped with a wax. Swissvax cleaning fluid has been highly recommended and I have it on order. Little pricecy, but oh well, you`ll never know until you try it.





That seems awfully pricey to me to wipe off remnants of polishing. Wouldn`t an IA/water mixture suffice to wipe it down?

[SuperBee364]

BTW take you time doing this last step. Jeweling can take as long as polishing.



Huge +1 on that. Especially if you`re using Menz 85 RD. 85RD (and 106ff and 106FA too) need to be *worked*. For a *long* time. With other traditional polishes, guys work the polish til it goes clear, then stop and remove. That`s not really how it works with the Menz finishing polishes. You`ll see it start to go clear and you`ll want to stop. Don`t. Keep going. Keep going until the polish looks like straight vegetable oil had been applied to the paint. It takes a long time to work it til it looks like straight oil, but believe me, you aren`t getting full benefit out of the Menz polish unless you work it to this point. After it gets to the point where it looks like vegetable oil, stop buffing and remove the excess. If it looks as glossy as it did when the oil was still on the paint, yo`uve hit max gloss. If it doessn`t, reapply, rework, remove until it looks just as glossy without the residue as it does with. You`ll be shocked and awed at how good it can look!




Both are finishing pads, but the blue is softer. It is the same process as polishing, however, most will rush this last step in order to get the LSP on. After jeweling I use a paint cleaner before waxing. Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion is what I use. The outcome is dramatic. I almost hate to touch it at this point, but it must be topped with a wax. Swissvax cleaning fluid has been highly recommended and I have it on order. Little pricecy, but oh well, you`ll never know until you try it.



IMO, Legacy99 is giving you great advice. Both on pads and PCL.




That seems awfully pricey to me to wipe off remnants of polishing. Wouldn`t an IA/water mixture suffice to wipe it down?



An IPA wipedown should always be considered necessary after using any polish (and before LSP) and especially after using Menz polishes. The only way you`ll know if you got all the holos out and got the correction you want is by doing a very thorough IPA wipedown after polishing. After the IPA wipedown is where I apply the PCL, glaze, or whatever pre-LSP I`m using (if any).



Using PCL before waxing gives an awesome look. It`ll also help hide any defects you weren`t comfortable removing during polishing. And if you`re in a hurry, it`ll also hide holograms very well. It can be used as a crutch, an enhancer, or both. I use it as both. ;) Well, not really... I just love how it looks. It also (for some strange reason) makes wax easier to apply and remove. Take Legacy99`s word for it on this one.. it`s great stuff and worth the money. I can apply and remove both the PCL and the first coat of wax in the same amount of time it takes me to do one coat of wax. PCL just makes waxing that much easier. Apply it with a PC and a red, blue, or black foam pad. It works it into the paint better, and the application goes much faster.

[jw]

I`ll give the po85rd a try tonight. I don`t have PCL. I was planning on doing an IPA wipedown when done. Mayb washing it and then apply Wolfgang Fusion. Should I use Zaio or AIO before the Wolfgang Fusion?

[termigator]

Can you use FP II instead of PO85rd? Got loads of FP II.



Also, when you say IPA (Isopropyl alcohol?) wipedown, are we diluting it or going straight?

[Accumulator]

I`ll give the po85rd a try tonight. .. Should I use Zaio or AIO before the Wolfgang Fusion?



Noting that I`ve never used PO85RD...IIRC it`s *extremely* mild. IME Zaino`s AIO has abrasives that are (at least in regard to initial bite) *more* aggressive than some polishes I`ve used. So I`d be a little leery of using ZAIO on paint that`s been thoroughly burnished with something extremely mild.



On the Audis, I jewel/burnish with stuff that`s a lot milder (in terms of initial cut, not necessarily in terms of final finish) than ZAIO so I`d never "go back up the scale" so to speak.



The Klasse AIO is so close to functionally nonabrasive that I don`t think it`d be too likely to diminish the finish that the PO85RD leaves behind.



But if *I* did the burnishing with PO85RD, I`d a) give a lot of thought to what I used between that an the LSP (yeah, PCL is nice) and b) be *VERY* careful with any washes/etc. as I`d sure hate to somehow instill new marring on the highly jeweled finish.




An IPA wipedown should always be considered necessary after using any polish (and before LSP) and especially after using Menz polishes. The only way you`ll know if you got all the holos out and got the correction you want is by doing a very thorough IPA wipedown after polishing. After the IPA wipedown is where I apply the PCL, glaze, or whatever pre-LSP I`m using (if any).



Other side of the fence on this one (gee, how often do you and I disagree about anything?!?).



I *never* do IPA wipedowns after my burnishing steps, in part because I don`t want to remove what some of my burnishing polishes leave behind (but I don`t do it after polishes that finish cleanly either). I don`t even *start* burnishing until the finish is as corrected as I want it, so there`s no fear of uncovering any flaws; maybe that makes all the difference and our approaches are just not directly comparable :think:



Also, I don`t bother doing any wipedowns before PCL as it *is* a paint cleaner. Yeah, PCL can do a little concealing of its own so I can see not wanting to use it until you`re certain of the paint`s (true) condition...maybe this just gets back to our approaching this step differently. By the time I reach for PCL I`m *finished* polishing, period, and ready to clean things up and glaze `em via the PCL.



Yeah...I suspect that what you`d call "the initial burnishing step" is what I`d call "the final pre-burnishing polishing step". IMO there`s a potential for some overlap in terminology here.



Thought occurs to me: actually, on some *very* soft paint, the PCL could actually be used *for* the burnishing; a least my (older) version has a *tiny* bit of cut to it, but I hear the current version is a bit milder.


Does blue have more bite or less than black?



IMO it`s not really a question of "bite" as the pads used for jeweling/burnishing are generally functionally nonabrasive (so all the minimal cut comes from the product), or at least that`s how *I* approach it. Unless you`re dealing with very soft paint all these finishing/waxing/etc. pads will be functionally nonabrasive.



The big thing is that certain products just work best with certain pads, it`s often a question of the pad`s porosity and/or how it soaks up product (or OTOH how well it keeps the product down on the panel *instead* of soaking it up).

[SuperBee364]

I`ll give the po85rd a try tonight. I don`t have PCL. I was planning on doing an IPA wipedown when done. Mayb washing it and then apply Wolfgang Fusion. Should I use Zaio or AIO before the Wolfgang Fusion?



If you do a real "jeweling" step, any AIO would be kinda redundant, as most (if not all) AIO`s are abrasive, and not capable of finishing down as nicely (again, for the most part, YMMV) as a true jeweling polish like FPII, 85RD, etc. Lot`s of guys will argue this, but I personally believe that putting a sealant down first before a wax seriously degrades the wax`s longevity.




Can you use FP II instead of PO85rd? Got loads of FP II.



Also, when you say IPA (Isopropyl alcohol?) wipedown, are we diluting it or going straight?



IMO, FPII and 85RD are in two completely different categories: one is to use as a final jeweling polish on soft to medium clears (that would be FPII), the other is a final jeweling polish on medium to hard clears ( that being 85RD). If you try to use 85RD on soft paint (with a rotary), there is a very good chance that you`ll end up with nasty holograms, yet it works great on medium to hard clears. OTOH, trying to use FPII on ceramiclear is an effort in futility unless you have a spare ten hours for the jeweling process.



I use 50/50 mix of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol with distilled water.




Noting that I`ve never used PO85RD...IIRC it`s *extremely* mild. IME Zaino`s AIO has abrasives that are (at least in regard to initial bite) *more* aggressive than some polishes I`ve used. So I`d be a little leery of using ZAIO on paint that`s been thoroughly burnished with something extremely mild.



On the Audis, I jewel/burnish with stuff that`s a lot milder (in terms of initial cut, not necessarily in terms of final finish) than ZAIO so I`d never "go back up the scale" so to speak.



The Klasse AIO is so close to functionally nonabrasive that I don`t think it`d be too likely to diminish the finish that the PO85RD leaves behind.



But if *I* did the burnishing with PO85RD, I`d a) give a lot of thought to what I used between that an the LSP (yeah, PCL is nice) and b) be *VERY* careful with any washes/etc. as I`d sure hate to somehow instill new marring on the highly jeweled finish.







Other side of the fence on this one (gee, how often do you and I disagree about anything?!?).



I *never* do IPA wipedowns after my burnishing steps, in part because I don`t want to remove what some of my burnishing polishes leave behind (but I don`t do it after polishes that finish cleanly either). I don`t even *start* burnishing until the finish is as corrected as I want it, so there`s no fear of uncovering any flaws; maybe that makes all the difference and our approaches are just not directly comparable :think:



Also, I don`t bother doing any wipedowns before PCL as it *is* a paint cleaner. Yeah, PCL can do a little concealing of its own so I can see not wanting to use it until you`re certain of the paint`s (true) condition...maybe this just gets back to our approaching this step differently. By the time I reach for PCL I`m *finished* polishing, period, and ready to clean things up and glaze `em via the PCL.



Yeah...I suspect that what you`d call "the initial burnishing step" is what I`d call "the final pre-burnishing polishing step". IMO there`s a potential for some overlap in terminology here.



Thought occurs to me: actually, on some *very* soft paint, the PCL could actually be used *for* the burnishing; a least my (older) version has a *tiny* bit of cut to it, but I hear the current version is a bit milder.





IMO it`s not really a question of "bite" as the pads used for jeweling/burnishing are generally functionally nonabrasive (so all the minimal cut comes from the product), or at least that`s how *I* approach it. Unless you`re dealing with very soft paint all these finishing/waxing/etc. pads will be functionally nonabrasive.



The big thing is that certain products just work best with certain pads, it`s often a question of the pad`s porosity and/or how it soaks up product (or OTOH how well it keeps the product down on the panel *instead* of soaking it up).



Yup, I think we`re taking seperate roads to the same destination. After I do what I hope will be my final polishing/burnishing, I do a very thorough IPA wipedown. Then I go over the paint with every light source I can find to seek/destroy any imperfections or holos that the residues from the finishing polish might have hidden, however unintentional that hiding might be. ;) *Then* I apply whatever pre-LSP I`m going to use, if any.



Either road we take, we still end up at the same destination: one beautifully detailed car!:chuckle:

[termigator]

IMO, FPII and 85RD are in two completely different categories: one is to use as a final jeweling polish on soft to medium clears (that would be FPII), the other is a final jeweling polish on medium to hard clears ( that being 85RD). If you try to use 85RD on soft paint (with a rotary), there is a very good chance that you`ll end up with nasty holograms, yet it works great on medium to hard clears. OTOH, trying to use FPII on ceramiclear is an effort in futility unless you have a spare ten hours for the jeweling process.



Thanks for the info. This actually works out better for me. I own a Honda and a Lexus. From my experiences so far, Honda`s paints don`t seem very hard . Not sure about the Lexus, but I`m thinking it`s not going to be too hard either.

BTW, I`m just a DA guy. Rotaries scare me.;)