Car Washing And The Ecology

[Bobby G]

Car Washing And The Ecology (http://www.autopia.org/publish/blogs/5/Car-Washing-And-The-Ecology.html)



Let`s discuss. What are your thoughts on the subject? Are you going to change your car washing ways before you`re forced to?



db

[corrswitch]

Thanks for pointing it out. I did not know there was a blog section :)



Very interesting read. Would would have sold it to me was a table or something similar comparing the cost per wash between the methods and its impact.

Just to convince me that it is equally cost effective.



I believe it was discussed before that using ONR was similar in cost compared to a regular wash.

[Accumulator]

As I`ve posted before, I`ve already BTDT.



Back when I had the dealership, the powers that be gave me an earful about how I had to set things up to be sufficiently eco-friendly, and I had the same setup installed at my home when I built the home detailing shop.



And no, I never really gave it any thought before learning how things had to pass code at the dealership all those years ago...live and learn. There aren`t any regs about it for residential situations in my area but it`s just my version of doing things right.



I`m nobody`s idea of a tree-hugger, but runoff going into storm drains/etc. simply isn`t my idea of being responsible. But I *do* wonder just how bad biodegradable car shampoo/etc. really is :nixweiss Left to my own devices, I`d probably worry more about the oil/grease/etc. that gets washed off of undercarriages and engines (and the sometimes nasty products that are used to do that sort of thing).



Water consumption isn`t an issue in my area, which is supplied by a (presumably) inexhaustible aquifer.

[BobD]

I do not plan on changing any time soon. Where we live the sewer systems are combined and they do not flow to the river before being treated. So there is no talks of us changing. However, if I was to wash a car where the run off water was going to a waterway I would in fact was differently.

[Bobby G]

I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.

[BobD]

I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.



Yeah, we are the minority with the combined sewer and sanitary systems for sure. All of our run off goes to a waste water treatment plant and then into the Detroit River. There are a very few outlets from parking lots and streets that run into a near buy creek that then dumps into the river.

[Bobby G]

That`s amazing that the sewer system can handle that much water.

[White95Max]

Most municipal sewer systems actually can`t. The Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District is famous for dumping billions of gallons of untreated sewage into Lake Michigan during heavy rain events. It has to pay a steep fine each time this happens, but they consider it cheaper than fixing the faults of the system. That would involve digging up half the city.



Accumulator - I did a test on PB`s "biodegradable" APC back in one of my soils classes in college, and it prevented seed germination in all of the plants at concentrations as low as 5ppm. At slightly higher concentrations, it was also able to kill existing plants. Very few things AREN`T biodegradable...the difference is simply how long they take to break down, and of course how toxic they are until that point.



Now that I`m out of college and working full-time (Regional Aquatic Invasive Species Education Specialist), I spend most of my workdays fixing the human-induced problems in our local waters. The fact is, most people wait far too long to change their ways or learn anything about the impacts they have on their local lakes and streams. It`s far less costly to be proactive than reactive.



Kudos to all of you that have voluntarily changed your ways to help your local environment.

[BobD]

That`s amazing that the sewer system can handle that much water.



The only thing not going to the sewers, or not supposed to be, is run off water from downspouts and gutter. Those used to be tied into the system but recent changes have forced people to disconnect them.

[Accumulator]

white95max- Hey, good to see you posting :wavey Hope all is well with you.



I`m not all that surprised that the "biodegradable APC" wasn`t so biodegradable after all..but wow, it actually *killed* the plants in high concentration huh? Sheesh, and people here get bent about Dawn (which my wife uses as an anti-bug spray on plants with no problems at all). I do wonder if regular shampoos might not be a whole lot better in that regard, but I bet those aren`t all the same either.



But anyhoo..I do sometimes forget that people here are doing this stuff in their driveways/etc. I`ve been doing it in purpose-configured shops for so long that I`ve come to think of that as normal :o



And hey#2, that`s an interesting field you`re in!

[Bobby G]

Likewise, Paul... nice to see you again.




Sheesh, and people here get bent about Dawn (which my wife uses as an anti-bug spray on plants with no problems at all).



I also spray down my broad leaf plants with Dawn or Lemon Joy to irritate the whitefly and clean up their mess. Works well and the plants seem to like it.




Accumulator - I did a test on PB`s "biodegradable" APC back in one of my soils classes in college, and it prevented seed germination in all of the plants at concentrations as low as 5ppm. At slightly higher concentrations, it was also able to kill existing plants. Very few things AREN`T biodegradable...the difference is simply how long they take to break down, and of course how toxic they are until that point.



You know, that`s a good idea. I suspect a few products need to be challenged on their claim of being biodegradable. If it kills plants, it isn`t eco-friendly in my book.

[White95Max]

Well, I`d bet just about any product would kill plants at some concentration. 5ppm seems pretty bad to me though. I`m sure runoff from a bucket of car soap & water is higher than 5ppm, so some plants along the driveway might be affected, or aquatic plants near the storm sewer outlet pipe. Then again, the storm water would be diluted by other "fresh" water input, which also contains various pollutants like road salt, oil, lawn fertilizers, etc.

My tests were on corn plants.

[tnforever]

I`d give it a try if it was readily available otc and at a price that is competitive with traditional soaps, which I believe is the position of most consumers. The reason I held off buying ONR is simply because I`d have to wait for a big order to get it from a etailer.

[Lumadar]

I live less than 100 yards from the Pacific ocean on one side of me and 50 yards to the San Diego Bay on the other side. I know exactly where my driveway runoff goes. For me, changing my ways really is the responsible thing to do.



I didn`t know you were in San Diego, cool :woot:



In addition to knowing where your runoff goes, know that San Diego has a double sewer system so the runoff goes straight to our ocean, and the sewage from toilets goes in a separate line to treatment facilities. My brother is the head of the storm water division for San Diego County, so I hear about it from time to time over family dinners.

[Junebug]

I live out in rural NC, I have my own well and septic tank. My yard consists of crabgrass and exotic weeds, it trives on car wash, APC, even solvents can`t kill the mighty crabgrass. Oh, I see I have a beautiful green crop of wild onions now, almost looks like grass from 500 feet - distance to the road.



Now, I didn`t always have crappy yard. I use to be a part-time lawn maintenance professional LOL! and I spent a ton of money on equipment, seed, fertilizer and chemicals, had a yard people bragged on - then my wife talked me into cheaping out and not getting the weed -n-feed I wanted and the cheap crap killed most of my yard, my yard work and my desire to do this anymore. I paid for all of that myself and I let her ruin it for me. SOOOOOO, everytime she mentions the yard, I tell her I don`t have a ^&%$*&%$* dime to spend on it, maybe she would like to try.



Thanks - feel better now!