screwed up big time.. advice?

[hoffman912]

I was at a porsche show yesterday, and griots was one of the sponsors. they had a booth pushing their products, which i have used before. I ask the guy at the booth to help me with the problem i have been having.



-single stage paint on my 68 912, that always fades and burns with water marks every time i wash it, and every time i wax it, it is irridecent and looks like an oil slick.



he recomended the griots paint prep, clay bar, machin polish 3, and a few coats of griots wax. i never used the paint prep before but understood it would remove the silicone based produts i have used in the past.



so i put up a few easy ups in my drive way to give me shade, wash the car with griots car wash, spray teh paint prep on every inch of teh surface and i know i need to let it sit for a few minutes. i go inside, to get a drink, come back out a few minutes later, and the paint prep has dried up on teh paint. i get the hose, spray it off completely. then clay bar it, and i notice i have strips and water lines burned into the paint from the paint prep stuff. while it is sunny and warm out, the car was in the shade the entire time and the paint never got hot (or i woudl have stopped immediately).



i use the machine 3 polish from griots, and it makes it shiney, but does nothing to the water lines. i pull out my 3m hand glaze.. a little better but not much. i use 3M rubbing compound II (on a craftsman orbital buffer) and it gets a little better but still there..



is it fixable? What do i need to do to fix this!??? :( also after i fix it, what do i need to do to keep my paint from fading like this all the time?





http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc_0205_copy1.jpg

[hoffman912]

Bump..





anyone? :sadpace: I hope there is some good news, about somthing I can do.. if this is best left to a pro to fix, is there anyone in columbus, ohio that you guys can recomend?



thanks,



Harry

[the other pc]

I can’t tell you anything definitive without seeing your paint in person and playing with it but your description brings a few thoughts to mind.



First off, paint doesn’t fade when you wash it and miraculously get pristine again with a little wax. It sounds like your finish is, was and continues to be somewhat oxidized.



Your normal routine was probably “glazing� the finish, making it temporarily look good by adding oil/wax which then wears/washes off in the normal course of things, re-exposing the actual condition.



My guess is that your finish, being oxidized and therefore porous, soaked up some residue from your solvent degreasing exercise (the “paint prep�) and streaked.



It sounds like your attempts to polish out the surface were too mild to buff out the imperfections.



Griot’s products are extremely mild to begin with and using many of the common orbital buffers on the market does little more (or even less) than working by hand.



Your finish probably needs buffing with a more aggressive machine and/or chemical, using correct technique. But without seeing it in person and getting a feel for the paint and it’s overall condition I couldn’t really say.



Your best bet is to take it to an experienced detailer who really knows what their doing and get it evaluated.





PC.

[Jscort98]

I`ve never had a problem like this so someone else will have to help you but I don`t think the GPP is supposed to sit on the paint. I believe it`s just an IPA and water mix that you spray on and wipe off.

[burn740i]

I see that your neighbor has an 8-Series. 840ci or 850i/ci?

[Accumulator]

hoffman912- Welcome to Autopia!



Sorry to hear about what happened to your Porsche...yeah, you can`t let the Paint Prep dry, especially on single stage.



I agree (per usual :D ) with the other PC: either take it to a *GOOD* pro or use a more aggressively abrasive product on it. The Griot`s MP#3 is *VERY* gentle and is certainly not aggressive enough for this job, not by a long shot even on single stage black. I dunno if their MP#1 would even be a good choice (I`ve used the Griot`s polishes on single stage many times, they`re simply not that good).



Once you get the streaking/etc. issues sorted out, keeping it well protected with a better wax/sealant will help immeasurably. Single stage black will always be pretty high maintenance, but it doesn`t need to be as bad as what you`ve been putting up with.



If you want to do the work yourself (and I do kinda think you`d be better off having a good pro do it this time around), are you working by hand, with the Sear`s 7" buffer, or with some other machine (the last choice is the way to go ;) )?

[hoffman912]

Thanks guys, sorry for the delay in getting back to this, i was in LAX, and central coast california for the last week.




First off, paint doesn’t fade when you wash it and miraculously get pristine again with a little wax. It sounds like your finish is, was and continues to be somewhat oxidized.



Your normal routine was probably “glazing� the finish, making it temporarily look good by adding oil/wax which then wears/washes off in the normal course of things, re-exposing the actual condition.



I agree 100% and believe you are correct. but its usually in streaks (ie you can see where the water ran off of it which becomes faded, as opposed to the entire car being faded).








My guess is that your finish, being oxidized and therefore porous, soaked up some residue from your solvent degreasing exercise (the “paint prep�) and streaked.







It sounds like your attempts to polish out the surface were too mild to buff out the imperfections.



Griot’s products are extremely mild to begin with and using many of the common orbital buffers on the market does little more (or even less) than working by hand.



Your finish probably needs buffing with a more aggressive machine and/or chemical, using correct technique. But without seeing it in person and getting a feel for the paint and it’s overall condition I couldn’t really say.



Your best bet is to take it to an experienced detailer who really knows what their doing and get it evaluated.





PC.



I agree here too, which is why i sweitched to 3m rubbing compound. is that still too mild? i just dont want to take it down to primer.






I see that your neighbor has an 8-Series. 840ci or 850i/ci?



it is the 840ci. my other car is an E30 325E daily driver, so my neighbor and I talk cars quite a bit.




hoffman912- Welcome to Autopia!



Sorry to hear about what happened to your Porsche...yeah, you can`t let the Paint Prep dry, especially on single stage.







yeah, i knew i couldnt let it dry, but didnt think it would happen if i turned my back for a few minutes.. sigh.. ill never let that happen again!






I agree (per usual :D ) with the other PC: either take it to a *GOOD* pro or use a more aggressively abrasive product on it. The Griot`s MP#3 is *VERY* gentle and is certainly not aggressive enough for this job, not by a long shot even on single stage black. I dunno if their MP#1 would even be a good choice (I`ve used the Griot`s polishes on single stage many times, they`re simply not that good).



yeah, i think i might give it another go. and then try to find a local pro.



I did call griots before i went on vacation. they suggested using the paint prep again, and they think its caused by old wax still being on the car and that it didnt get all of it.. so they sent me a free bottle of it. i think they are FOS, and way off, as its clearly burned/oxidized and not just build up. i might try doing the process again and making sure to not let it dry. you think it would be a waste of time, or worth the effort? i think both.. but not sure.










Once you get the streaking/etc. issues sorted out, keeping it well protected with a better wax/sealant will help immeasurably. Single stage black will always be pretty high maintenance, but it doesn`t need to be as bad as what you`ve been putting up with.



If you want to do the work yourself (and I do kinda think you`d be better off having a good pro do it this time around), are you working by hand, with the Sear`s 7" buffer, or with some other machine (the last choice is the way to go ;) )?



its a single stage burgandy, but yeah, its a dark color, so i know what youre saying. it shouldnt be this bad. so should i ditch the griots, and if so what should i go with?

i find everything i use leaves it with an iridescent smear of residue behind. i just want to get it looking deep and like fresh glass (ie not like glass cleaned with windex like it usually does :lol: )



i have the craftsman 10" (i fail) .. i know i should have gone with a much smaller one. i think i will go with a porter cable next time..



how expensive do good detailers cost per hour. on a swag, what do you think somthing like this would run? do you think it could have to go so far as to be color sanded, or is that too extreme? do you know a good detailer in central ohio (grandview area) that you could recomend?

[Accumulator]

... i sweitched to 3m rubbing compound. is that still too mild? i just dont want to take it down to primer.



There are a scad of different 3M Rubbing Compounds, but what you have is probably strong enough (though it might take multiple applications).



I`d be seriously considering an ETG so you can monitor how thin your paint gets.




I did call griots before i went on vacation. they suggested using the paint prep again, and they think its caused by old wax still being on the car and that it didnt get all of it.. so they sent me a free bottle of it. i think they are FOS, and way off, as its clearly burned/oxidized and not just build up. i might try doing the process again and making sure to not let it dry. you think it would be a waste of time, or worth the effort? i think both.. but not sure...



Probably won`t solve the problem, but shouldn`t hurt if you do things right. I`d do it just to find out if it`s a viable solution (try a limited area).




its a single stage burgandy, but yeah, its a dark color, so i know what youre saying. it shouldnt be this bad. so should i ditch the griots, and if so what should i go with?

i find everything i use leaves it with an iridescent smear of residue behind. i just want to get it looking deep and like fresh glass (ie not like glass cleaned with windex like it usually does :lol: )



It sounds like you need to polish off the top layer of "dead"/compromised/oxidized paint. Yeah, that means thinning it, so you don`t want to be careless about it. You also don`t want to keep doing this on a regular basis.



I wonder how you`d do with 1Z Paint Polish, possibly followed by their Metallic Polish with Wax :think: Those are about the most user-friendly polishes on the market.



Sources: Home (http://www.exceldetail.com/) or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing (http://www.pakshak.com/index.html) . The you could wax it with Collinite and it oughta be OK for a good long time.





No idea where to find a pro or what they`d charge. But I`d be pretty surprised if it needed to be wetsanded...I`d rather have thicker but imperfect paint myself anyhow.

[the other pc]

Thanks guys, sorry for the delay in getting back to this, i was in LAX, and central coast california for the last week. ...Too bad you didn’t have the car with you (I’m pretty sure a 912 doesn’t qualify as carry-on baggage). I know a great detailer up in the central coast area.





PC.

[hoffman912]

Too bad you didn’t have the car with you (I’m pretty sure a 912 doesn’t qualify as carry-on baggage). I know a great detailer up in the central coast area.





PC.



oddly enough this is only the 2nd time in 6 years that i did not drive it cross country for our annual 912 event. :eek: