Curious - Your Rotary Pad Size, Type...?

[charlesaferg]

Curiousity hit me after reading this thread here...

http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/95727-question-pc-users-switched-rotary.html



What size and type of pads do you prefer for your rotary for various tasks?



Also, I realize many of you use wool more extensively than myself, and I`d love to hear what size/type of pads you use for the entire process. EG LC purple foamed wool, what sizes, etc...



Lastly, for those who use foam, or for what foam pads you use at all - chime in on that too. Size as well as brand, style, and color.



I figured I would dedicate a thread to this very complex and really individually driven issue.



Personally, I find myself only using wool for heavy, sometimes moderate cutting. I`m a very avid user of the 7.5 CCS White and SIP. (I am also looking to purchase some green, and am curious if I should even bother with the 7.5 in foam and jsut go for the 6.5, the size of which have served me well on my RO for years. Overall, I haven`t tried green, and I`d like to hear from you guys as well regarding this. Is it firm enough for finishing with 106ff/87MC/85RD on a rotary, or even an RO/Flex? I do all of my finishing with a RO/Flex.



Oh, and what`s with the red pads, I didn`t see them last year, I honestly don`t see a point between red and blue. Do any of you use the blue for anything but LSP/glaze application? Do you use either of them, or even a black pad on a rotary?



Thanks guys

[SVR]

Rotary - 6.5 inch foam - Lake country CCS and Eurotech

- 6.5 inch LC foamed wool

- 8 inch LC foam (yellow to blue)

- 8 inch Edge black wool and meguiars white cut n shine wool

- 3.5 to 4 inch LC foamed wool and yellow to blue foam

- 5.5 inch foamed wool, orange, white, black, blue foam



Blue LC foam is used for 85RD Finishing polish or 85RE5 on occasions along with rotary applications of Driven quick spray and Aussie Gold showroom glaze at almost full strength (normally you dilute it)



Red LC foam is for Blackfire Gloss Enhancing polish, Prima Amigo and Glare Professional Polish

Black is the dedicated 106 and 85RD pad, the white foam can be somewhat grabby.

[Rob Tomlin]

As a rotary newbie, I am interested in this question as well.



It`s actual fairly confusing, because there does not appear to be too much of a consensus on this.



I`d like to know what size backing plate and pads are generally recommended, not to mention the whole wool vs. foam debate.



Is the purple foamed wool from LC worth getting, or would a newbie be better off with the foam equivalent (and I`m not even sure what that would be)?



I`d really like to hear from as many rotary users as possible on this.

[Pats300zx]

For me I recently got a 3M backing iplate and I love it. It has cut down tremendously on the rotary hop that I used to get. For pads I have been using the Sonus 6 inch or the Megs 6.5 inch.



The only wool pads I have tried so far are the purple foamed wool.

[Accumulator]

Rob Tomlin asked me to respond on this one, but I`m no Rotary-Meister by any means.



I prefer 6-6.5" pads for overall correction, but I use 4" pads the most because I`m usually just doing spot-correction on RIDS.



I recently got a bunch of Edge wool pads and some LC purple foamed ones, but I haven`t tried any of these out yet.



I`ve never been able to finish out 100% hologram-free via rotary, but then I`ve never tried it with any of the new finishing polishes that`ve recently hit the market. I just do the major correction via rotary and switch to my old fave the Cyclo for the final polishing.



With all the good wool pads out there these days, IMO people oughta consider wool for everything except the final polishing. Runs cooler, thus safer.

[SuperBee364]

Rob Tomlin asked me to respond on this one, but I`m no Rotary-Meister by any means.



I prefer 6-6.5" pads for overall correction, but I use 4" pads the most because I`m usually just doing spot-correction on RIDS.



I recently got a bunch of Edge wool pads and some LC purple foamed ones, but I haven`t tried any of these out yet. Were you able to finally get ahold of some of the white finishing wool pads, then? I saw your post asking where to get them last week... Mindflux just pointed me to edgepadsonline.com as a source for them.



I`ve never been able to finish out 100% hologram-free via rotary, but then I`ve never tried it with any of the new finishing polishes that`ve recently hit the market. I just do the major correction via rotary and switch to my old fave the Cyclo for the final polishing.



With all the good wool pads out there these days, IMO people oughta consider wool for everything except the final polishing. Runs cooler, thus safer. +1 for this, with my usual finishing wool caveat. ;)



(10 char min)

[imported_Denzil]

I haven`t used my new pads yet (Edge wools and LC purple foamed wools) but I myself do prefer the 6/6.5" pads for correction. Anything larger just rubs me the wrong way.



For me, this is what I`ve thought about doing for...



1-steps:

- LC purple foamed wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate polish

- Edge yellow/green/blue foam with M105, SIP or other appropriate polish



2-steps:

- LC purple foamed wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate cutting polish followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish

- Edge yellow/green wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate cutting polish followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish



3-steps:

- Edge black/yellow wool with M105 followed by LC purple foamed wool with SIP followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish

- Edge black/yellow wool with M105 followed by Edge yellow/green wool with SIP followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish



Any thoughts on the above processes?



It seems that M105, SIP, and UFSE are highly regarded and I`m actually interested in some comparable alternatives (for curiosity). I`m thinking that anyone who has M105, SIP, and UFSE are pretty much set for some serious correction abilities with the upper range of wool pads and lower range of foam pads.

[Rob Tomlin]

Rob Tomlin asked me to respond on this one, but I`m no Rotary-Meister by any means.



I prefer 6-6.5" pads for overall correction, but I use 4" pads the most because I`m usually just doing spot-correction on RIDS.



That is a very good point re the 4" pads for spot correction. This would seem to be an argument in favor of the Edge system, as there would be no need to change backing plates for the smaller 4" pad, correct?




I recently got a bunch of Edge wool pads and some LC purple foamed ones, but I haven`t tried any of these out yet.



Please post your experience once you have tried them!




I`ve never been able to finish out 100% hologram-free via rotary, but then I`ve never tried it with any of the new finishing polishes that`ve recently hit the market. I just do the major correction via rotary and switch to my old fave the Cyclo for the final polishing.



Hey! Now you are scaring me! Regardless of the pad/polish used, you can`t finish completely hologram free?




With all the good wool pads out there these days, IMO people oughta consider wool for everything except the final polishing. Runs cooler, thus safer.



Ah, now I`m back to having to get the purple foamed wool, just when I thought I had decided to go all foam! :wall



Thanks for the post!

[imported_Denzil]

LoL, good luck on finding what works best for you Tom! I hope I won`t have to buy any more things for a while and be content with the stuff I just bought recently. :wall

[Accumulator]

SuperBee364- I got `em all except the 6" white wool, gotta contact Edge directly for those and I haven`t gotten around to it. Or rather I *think* I have them...haven`t opened the boxes yet (gee, can you tell how much I`m prioritizing this).



Rob Tomlin- I suppose the Edge system *would* make the 4" pads even more convenient...I just use regular backing plates as I have a zillion velcro-backed Cyclo brand pads. I do the major correction via rotary/4" then switch to the PC/4" or Cyclo to finish out.



Don`t hold your breath for my review of the wool ;) The only real correction I`m doing these days is on my neverending e36 M3 project, and I`m not spending any time on it these days :o



Don`t get me wrong about my inablity to finish out hologram free...I haven`t tried a lot of different combos, let alone many finishing pads/polishes. It`s not something I`ve really worked at as I simply *enjoy* using the Cyclos so much more than the rotaries that I look forward to doing as much as possible via Cyclo (just a personal preference). But whenever I`ve *tried* to finish out with the rotary, I *always* find some light holograms if I spend enough time inspecting. Would anybody else see `em? I dunno, but the only person whose opinion really matters sees them ;)



But FWIW, I`ve seen (*very light*) holograms on some other detailers` "hologram-free" finishes. Might take a *LONG* time to spot `em, gotta get the light and viewing angle just right and then they`re only there for a split-second...but they have been there. With my inefficient (but effective ;) ) multiple-step approaches, I do get things *exactly* the way I want `em with no surprises, so I don`t mind doing it that way. And note that people like Mike Phillips (who`s used a rotary for over 30 years) still finish out via PC (or rather by whatever Meguiar`s calls their random orbital machine).



Denzil- Just an UNeducated guess, but I *think* you`re gonna need to finish up your various proposed combos with something milder...at least a white wool/finishing polish or a foam finishing pad/finishing polish. Or with a PC/etc. ;)

[DSVWGLI]

I have been using the rotary exclusively for about a year or so now and rarely have to reach for the PC. For the most part it`s the softer clear`s that present a problem for "hologram free" finishing. After compounding, a finishing pad is a "must" with the rotary. I personally use an 6" - 6.5" LC VCC black pad with either OP, menzerna FP or my new favorite 106FF. After spreading at low rpms and polishing at 1200 - 1800 rpms, I will finish it out a about 900 rpms with very slow passes. It`s the slow passes with low rpms that will produce a hologram and trail free finish. This is just my experience by the way. As far as pad size I like 6.5" purple foamed wool for correction work and 6" - 6.5" black LC VCC pads for finishing. I have some 6"CCS pads that I hate for rotary work because they are to hard. I also have some 8" Edge pads that I use on large vehicls once in a while. I find the smaller pads have better controll and feel.

[SuperBee364]

I haven`t used my new pads yet (Edge wools and LC purple foamed wools) but I myself do prefer the 6/6.5" pads for correction. Anything larger just rubs me the wrong way.



For me, this is what I`ve thought about doing for...



1-steps:

- LC purple foamed wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate polish

- Edge yellow/green/blue foam with M105, SIP or other appropriate polish



2-steps:

- LC purple foamed wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate cutting polish followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish

- Edge yellow/green wool with M105, SIP or other appropriate cutting polish followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish



3-steps:

- Edge black/yellow wool with M105 followed by LC purple foamed wool with SIP followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish

- Edge black/yellow wool with M105 followed by Edge yellow/green wool with SIP followed by Edge green/blue foam with UFSE or other appropriate finishing polish



Any thoughts on the above processes?



It seems that M105, SIP, and UFSE are highly regarded and I`m actually interested in some comparable alternatives (for curiosity). I`m thinking that anyone who has M105, SIP, and UFSE are pretty much set for some serious correction abilities with the upper range of wool pads and lower range of foam pads.



M105, SIP, and UFSE is a very good well-rounded arsenal.



alternatives...



Hevy compounding:



Menz Power Gloss - you`ll either love it or hate it. I love it with black, yellow, or purple foamed wool.



Optimum Compound- good cutting with a black or yellow edge pad, but I can`t ever get it to finish down very well. It seems to cut just a bit more than SIP. Scales very well with more aggressive pads. Nice long working time.



HiTemp Extreme Cut - Love this stuff, but only when you add some OP or OC to it to extend the workinng time. I can get this stuff to finish down better than Menz PG, but when you add the OP to the HTEC, it doesn`t cut quite as well as MPG,



Optimum Hyper Compound- I`m just not good enough to get this stuff to work well, no matter what pad I use with it. Not saying it`s not a good product; it`s my skill that`s lacking i`m sure.



Ultra Cutting Creme Light- Haven`t used this stuff, but it`s highly regarded by alot of the pros around here.



Medium Polish:



MIP: Very useful on softer clears.



HiTemp Heavy Cut or 357 magnum (whatever they call it now days): Not nearly as much correcting power as what the name suggests. Once again, it works best when you add a bit of OP to it to extend the working time. Very nice, cheap polish, but again, most effective on softer clears. Easy polish to work with.



1Z Intensive Paste: Supposedly a good alternative to SIP on hard clears. Not alot has been said about this stuff, but the few write-ups I`ve seen have given it good marks. I haven`t used it.



Finishing Polishes:



Menz PO106FF Nano Polish: My all time favorite, although Ultrafina is rapidly gaining. 106ff just rocks on everything but the softest clears. Outstanding working time. Leaves behind an oily residue that *must* be removed (high concentrate IPA wipedown) in order to see any remaining defects, and also if you`re going to use a sealant based LSP. *Reaally* good with white finishing wool. The lubricants in the 106ff give the white wool the ability to finish down much finer than any other polish I`ve used with the white wool. If you do use this with the white wool, use quite a bit more than what you`re used to using with foam. The wool needs to be very well lubricated to see the best result possible. Very good correcting ability for a finishing polish. Gets out light swirling and destroys holograms fast.



Menz FPII: *Great* stuff on soft clear coats. My favorite for soft clears, actually.



Optimum Polish: another great polish for soft to medium clears. Doesn`t do much on hard stuff, though. Great working time, easy to use, pretty good correcting power for a finishing polish.



1Z High Gloss: Probably the very easiest ceramiclear rated finishing polish to use. It must be worked at 1k RPM or less, which makes it even safer for rotary new guys to use. Just work it at 1k or less til it disappears, wipe what little residue remains, and enjoy the shine. This stuff is really under rated. IMO, very best choice for a rotary new guy that needs a ceramiclear rated finishing polish. Also works *very* well with DA machines.



Menz PO85RD: Ultra fine finishing polish that is rated for ceramiclear. Virtually no correcting power, but when used with a foam finishing pad will give you an unsurpassed gloss. Leaves behind oils like 106 does, so the same caveat applies.



My next test is going to be the white finishing wool with the PO85RD. The lubricants seem to be exactly the same in 85rd as 106, so it should lube the white wool very well. But the 85RD has much smaller abrasives. The small abrasives, good lube, and white wool have me thinking that this combo will be a good competition to finishing foam, but faster, cooler, and safer.



Edit: Sheesh, I just realized that my entire post was off topic. :o



Favorite pads:



Heavy correction: Edge black or yellow wool, purple foamed wool.



Medium correction: Purple foamed wool, Edge blue or green wool.



Finishing polish: Edge white wool, LC white foam, 3m blue wave pad



Jeweling polish: 3M blue wave pad (but it`s only available in eight inches, which is just too big for me), LC black foam, LC Red foam, and hopefully soon I`ll be able to add the edge white wool to this list.



The next foam pads I get are going to be the Edge 2000 wave foam six inchers. After using the 3M blue wave foam, I have high hopes that the Edge wave foam will perform as well. That 3M blue wave pad is outstanding. It runs so much cooler than your average foam, and is sooooo soft.

[imported_Denzil]

Denzil- Just an UNeducated guess, but I *think* you`re gonna need to finish up your various proposed combos with something milder...at least a white wool/finishing polish or a foam finishing pad/finishing polish. Or with a PC/etc. ;)



Thanks for the tip Accumulator! It wasn`t until you mentioned this that I realized that the pads I mentioned for finishing the car could be a tad softer, especially for those soft clears!



:doh, I forgot to mention that`d I`d be finishing with a PC.




M105, SIP, and UFSE is a very good well-rounded arsenal.



alternatives...



Hevy compounding:



Menz Power Gloss - you`ll either love it or hate it. I love it with black, yellow, or purple foamed wool.



Optimum Compound- good cutting with a black or yellow edge pad, but I can`t ever get it to finish down very well. It seems to cut just a bit more than SIP. Scales very well with more aggressive pads. Nice long working time.



HiTemp Extreme Cut - Love this stuff, but only when you add some OP or OC to it to extend the workinng time. I can get this stuff to finish down better than Menz PG, but when you add the OP to the HTEC, it doesn`t cut quite as well as MPG,



Optimum Hyper Compound- I`m just not good enough to get this stuff to work well, no matter what pad I use with it. Not saying it`s not a good product; it`s my skill that`s lacking i`m sure.



Ultra Cutting Creme Light- Haven`t used this stuff, but it`s highly regarded by alot of the pros around here.



Medium Polish:



MIP: Very useful on softer clears.



HiTemp Heavy Cut or 357 magnum (whatever they call it now days): Not nearly as much correcting power as what the name suggests. Once again, it works best when you add a bit of OP to it to extend the working time. Very nice, cheap polish, but again, most effective on softer clears. Easy polish to work with.



1Z Intensive Paste: Supposedly a good alternative to SIP on hard clears. Not alot has been said about this stuff, but the few write-ups I`ve seen have given it good marks. I haven`t used it.



Finishing Polishes:



Menz PO106FF Nano Polish: My all time favorite, although Ultrafina is rapidly gaining. 106ff just rocks on everything but the softest clears. Outstanding working time. Leaves behind an oily residue that *must* be removed (high concentrate IPA wipedown) in order to see any remaining defects, and also if you`re going to use a sealant based LSP. *Reaally* good with white finishing wool. The lubricants in the 106ff give the white wool the ability to finish down much finer than any other polish I`ve used with the white wool. Very good correcting ability for a finishing polish. Gets out light swirling and destroys holograms fast.



Menz FPII: *Great* stuff on soft clear coats. My favorite for soft clears, actually.



Optimum Polish: another great polish for soft to medium clears. Doesn`t do much on hard stuff, though. Great working time, easy to use, pretty good correcting power for a finishing polish.



1Z High Gloss: Probably the very easiest ceramiclear rated finishing polish to use. It must be worked at 1k RPM or less, which makes it even safer for rotary new guys to use. Just work it at 1k or less til it disappears, wipe what little residue remains, and enjoy the shine. This stuff is really under rated. IMO, very best choice for a rotary new guy that needs a ceramiclear rated finishing polish. Also works *very* well with DA machines.



Menz PO85RD: Ultra fine finishing polish that is rated for ceramiclear. Virtually no correcting power, but when used with a foam finishing pad will give you an unsurpassed gloss. Leaves behind oils like 106 does, so the same caveat applies.



My next test is going to be the white finishing wool with the PO85RD. The lubricants seem to be exactly the same in 85rd as 106, so it should lube the white wool very well. But the 85RD has much smaller abrasives. The small abrasives, good lube, and white wool have me thinking that this combo will be a good competition to finishing foam, but faster, cooler, and safer.



Edit: Sheesh, I just realized that my entire post was off topic. :o



Favorite pads:



Heavy correction: Edge black or yellow wool, purple foamed wool.



Medium correction: Purple foamed wool, Edge blue or green wool.



Finishing polish: Edge white wool, LC white foam, 3m blue wave pad



Jeweling polish: 3M blue wave pad (but it`s only available in eight inches, which is just too big for me), LC black foam, LC Red foam, and hopefully soon I`ll be able to add the edge white wool to this list.



The next foam pads I get are going to be the Edge 2000 wave foam six inchers. After using the 3M blue wave foam, I have high hopes that the Edge wave foam will perform as well. That 3M blue wave pad is outstanding. It runs so much cooler than your average foam, and is sooooo soft.



Wow Supe, you far exceeded what I requested, LoL. I thank you very graciously for this information as it definitely gives me (and I`m sure other rotary newbies out there) a really good perspective of polishes and their behavior based on your experiences! You know I`m going to sticky this now don`t you...



:bow SuperBee364

[SuperBee364]

My pleasure, Denzil, I hope I haven`t led you astray. :)

[imported_Denzil]

Naw, you didn`t Supe. I do have the awesome combo of M105, SIP, and UFSE as well as some of the alternatives such as OC, HTEC, OP, OPS, and PB Polish with Canauba blue.



I think I`ll be content for quite some time. :bounce