Dealer to fix acid rain damage

[ADauphin]

When I bought my 90 grand am new, I didn`t get any protection and about a year after I noticed acid rain damage...the dealer took care of it under warranty. Now 17 years later the areas fixed look like my car was painted with a crayon and the remaining factory panels are still shiny.



My 2002 Envoy I bought new and purchased the Auto Armour protection plan and they undercoated and "protected the paint" which guarantees my paint for 5 years. Now she is 5 years old and I now have it at the dealer for acid rain damage, it is black. As of now it is getting estimated and the company who issued the plan is waiting to hear back from the body shop. My service advisor is filling me in as he hears what is the progress at the body shop, so far I have heard the term "wet sand" depending on the severity. Last time my grand am was fixed I now have a crayola paint job....I don`t really want them to wet sand my clear and I told the service advisor this, maybe to clear up some minor orange peel but were not talking oranges here.



For those of you that know GM factory paint and acid rain what should be my course of action if this episode goes south? Is wet sanding a big no-no or should I have it repainted? Can they wet sand and shoot a few more coats of clear if that clears up the damage? I just want to have some knowledge of this before I possibly engage the adjuster in case they try to get the best of me, considering what it costs to paint now I definately need to know my options.



I plan on keeping this vehicle for 5 years or more so any help is appreciated, I will let you know what happens as it unfolds.

[imported_DetailDan]

All those "paint protection" plans from dealerships are just sales gimmicks. There isnt actually a sealant thatll last for 5 years along. The plan should be to start with the least aggressive combo and move your way up. So it should be a polish with a light cut pad, then so on and so on. Wet sanding is the last step, and clear coat thickness needs to be evaluated before starting. Otherwise, it could lead to clear coat failure.



If it was my car, the dealership is the last place Id let touch it. I wouldnt even let them wash the thing. Shoot brwill2005 a PM and he will probably be able to help you.

[PRB]

All those "paint protection" plans from dealerships are just sales gimmicks.



If it was my car, the dealership is the last place Id let touch it. I wouldnt even let them wash the thing.



GMCMAN bought the protection package. While the sealant they apply is paint sealant at best, he is utilizing the warranty coverage offered through the plan. In this case, it wasn`t a gimmick. As with any of the plans that offer warranty service behind the "paint protection package", it`s more of an insurance policy that covers the finish.



Since he bought it at the dealership, they are likely the ones to perform or sub-contract the warranty service.



If a person is opposed to that particular facility for work, then they`d have to contact the warranty adjusting company or whoever honors the warranty/pays the claim. Sometimes, it`s an internal function of the selling dealer and you`re stuck with them or paying to do it yourself or have it done elsewhere.



If the etching isn`t too deep, then sanding a bit of the clear and bringing it back with compounds and polish will work. Moving directly to the sandpaper isn`t the best idea and it`s a last resort to saving the current finish. If the etching is deeper than the clear, then no amount of sanding and polishing will bring it back. This means its time for a repaint. Believe me, they don`t want to pay to have your vehicle refinished if they don`t have to do so.



That said, I`d worry about having the wet sanding done and being left with too little clear. While it may look OK in the short term, leaving a scant coating will lead to premature failure in the much nearer future. I would think this is going to be another warranty claim, but that is something you`d have to take up with the shop and the warranty people.



Express your concerns to the service advisor and the adjuster. If you can, speak directly with the shop doing the work. Tell them you plan to keep the vehicle and don`t want it to be shiny today if that means risks the durability of the finish in 6 months or a year.

[imported_Totoland Mach]

I just finished a black BMW 530i that had acid rain damage on the horizontal surfaces. It can be fixed with wet sanding and, depending upon the shop doing the work, should not remove too much clear coat.



I`d recommend you do the following if the dealer is going to wet sand: Have them provide you with paint guage readings before and after of e representative section of each panel. That way you`ll have some written documentation of clear coat removal.



Depending upon the depth of the acid rain, this is an acceptable method of repair. The Bimmer came out just fine and the paint guage barely showed a loss of clear coat.



Here`s an example of the trunk lid during wet sanding and after. You can see the "pits" in the pic and I removed them totally.



During



http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/July07_BMWs/530i_WetSandacidrain.jpg



After



http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/July07_BMWs/530i_CompoundedWetSandtrunklid.jpg



Done



http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/July07_BMWs/BMW530i_OutsideHood_LSP.jpg



Toto

[David Fermani]

Well said guys. You`d be paying for this repair out of your pocket if you didn`t have the warranty. There`s not a OTC paint sealant out there that will offer you ANY kind of protection warranty. Just the basic "dealer installed" ones do it. That`s why they cost so much. The biggest problem with these treatments is that the application centers usually don`t properly inspect these vehicle prior to sealing them. You`d be surprised how many vehicles that are brand new off the delivery truck have acid rain/fallout damage. A friend of mine that has a very large application center earns $100`s of thousands of dollars just correcting/repairing the finish prior to sealing them. He refuses to seal any surface that isn`t perfect. The beauty of the whole thing is, is that the manufacturer pays to fix them under warranty. Usually for a few $100 each. Big bucks$$$

[ADauphin]

Well I spoke with my SA today and he told me the body shop manager said the only way to correctly fix the problem is to repaint the flat surfaces. I have the estimate and need to send a copy to the adjuster along with my original agreement. All I can say is i`m glad I purchased the plan or "warranty" cuz with the 2 pages of procedures of removing/reinstalling badges, moldings, trim, roof rails, yatta yatta yatta and painting...all comes to the tune of $5200 :shocked . I know painting has gotten expensive in the years but if you want it done right.



Main reason I purchased the plan is my Grand Am looks like poop and a repaint in 97 was $2500, not likely for a $800 car. So I figured what the heck...hope it works out and they accept the estimate....will be cheaper for them than the estimate+ court costs but hopefully we won`t have to cross that bridge. I just always get a bad feeling in the gut when it comes to warranty work like this, they want to protect themselves but never really seem to bend over backwards to help the consumer at times. I`ll keep ya posted.

[David Fermani]

the body shop manager said the only way to correctly fix the problem is to repaint the flat surfaces. I have the estimate and need to send a copy to the adjuster along with my original agreement. all comes to the tune of $5200

hope it works out and they accept the estimate....will be cheaper for them than the estimate+ court costs but hopefully we won`t have to cross that bridge..



Sorry if I`m bursting your bubble, but I seriously doubt the warranty company will go for anything close to $5200 to fix your truck. There`s no way it costs that much to paint the whole truck, better yet just the tops. If they do, I`ll be amazed.

[ADauphin]

That`s what i`m thinking as well, after looking over the estimate they are pretty close to painting the entire truck...$5200 is pretty stinkin high. Alot of the labor involved removing most of the moldings and badges....why not tape them. I dunno...we shall see. Sweet job on the bimmer BTW.



Wanted to add......wonder if the dealers body shop would create an astronomically high estimate to deter the adjuster from honoring the price??? They work under the same roof.

[David Fermani]

Taping off moldings is not the proper way to paint a car. Especially for a customer coming in because they noticed acid rain damage. The dealer body shop is probably hoping to collect a big dollar check and just pocket the difference. Shops typically start real high in hopes that the adjuster will only knock them down to their acceptable level. In this case, to paint the tops(hood/roof) it`s much less than $1000, so they`ll be way off if the adjuster knows anything.

What do you mean by them working under the same roof? The warranty company probably will hire an independent appraiser to look at/confirm the damages. They might only allow a wet sand and rub at 1st to see if you bite and then go to repainting as the next step.

[ADauphin]

The "guest services" at the dealer is where the plans are purchased...seperate from the vehicle sales. They are a different company but are there for convinence to the customer. I figure they will duke it out and hopefully settle on a happy medium. Not knocking them but I really hate having to go through this.

[Accumulator]

gmcman- Just my $0.02, but I`d rather have acid rain etching than a repaint. For that matter, I live with some etching on most of my "good" vehicles...while it bugs me, I simply won`t thin the paint enough to remove it. I keep some vehicles a *long* time (still got the `85 Jag I bought new) and I want them to have as little paintwork as possible.



Most paint/body shops do simply *terrible* work, sad but true.



I recognize that you paid for protection against stuff like this, and you deserve some kind of satisfaction...I just don`t know if the solution will be better than the problem.



When I bought a Carerra 4, Porsche offered to repaint the whole thing over its awful acid rain damage; I passed because I just *knew* that they`d be solving one issue and causing a dozen other new ones. Since then I inspect new car purchases and simply don`t take ones that need work.



AutoInt/Value Guard sells a product called "Paint Correction Creme" that`s made for this sort of repair. The guys at AutoInt caution that on *their* cars, if they used this product they`d be very leery of *ever* doing significant correction on those areas again. Not being able to take out scratches/etc. would bother me a lot more than some etching, but that`s just me.

[ADauphin]

I still need to speak to the body shop manager personally before I agree to anything. I have read a few posts on how the factory paint is best kept untouched but I have to ask...what makes the factory paint/clear so superior to today`s products? We are talking almost 6 years of technology so wouldn`t product of today be a more durable finish? I`m not doubting anyone`s suggestions but I just want to be educated on this a bit more, I plan on keeping this vehicle for at least 5 more years, maybe more.

[David Fermani]

As better products evolve, harsh contaminants(acid rain) get worse too. The environment is nasty around industrial plants where vehicles get painted. Imagine a freshly painted car (within a few hours off the assembly line) getting parked outside the factory in the pouring rain and doesn`t get washed off for weeks or months with those elements dried into the finish!!! :soscared: There`s no way it won`t get damaged. Back in 1989 I special ordered a black Mustang GT and it was covered in acid rain the day I picked it up.:bawling: It didn`t sit 1 day on the lot at the dealership either. They ended up painting it several times before I got rid of it due to the paint problems.

As far as your car, I`d try to sand it 1st to see if you`re ok with it. If not, have them repaint it.

[Accumulator]

I still need to speak to the body shop manager personally before I agree to anything. I have read a few posts on how the factory paint is best kept untouched but I have to ask...what makes the factory paint/clear so superior to today`s products? We are talking almost 6 years of technology so wouldn`t product of today be a more durable finish? I`m not doubting anyone`s suggestions but I just want to be educated on this a bit more, I plan on keeping this vehicle for at least 5 more years, maybe more.



While paint technology has changed, in the case of aftermarket paint the changes have, in many ways, been for the worse due to environmental regulations. Meanwhile, factory paint technology has also changed, but in many ways for the *better* partly due to automation.



The paint they use at the factory is a special formulation that`s baked at much higher temps than aftermarket paint. Aftermarket paint is subject to completely different regulations is, and is simply very different stuff that`s applied in a different way (spray guns vs. computerized robots). Factory paint is almost always more durable than aftermarket paint, though a *VERY* good repaint can be mighty nice (and mighty hard to find and mighty expensive).



And remember that at the factory, the car is painted *before* assembly. To repaint a care properly (and I`ve had a *LOT* of cars repainted) the vehicle needs to be significantly disassembled- glass, trim, etc. Few shops want to do that and fewer still do it right.



I agree with David Fermani- have it wetsanded and see if that fixes it to your satisfaction. If you`re not willing to live with it, and the only other option is to have it repainted, then I don`t see much downside *as long as* they`ll repaint it later if the wetsanding thins the paint so much that it ends up failing. IIRC, the rule-of-thumb is that the paint can be thinned by one-third to one-half of a mil (that`s .0003"-.0005", which isn`t much) without precipitating premature clearcoat failure....I dunno...I bet the etching is deeper than that :nixweiss



Hope that bodyshop manager knows his stuff. Of the many such people I`ve met, two or three of them were actually fairly knowledgeable..hope he is.

[ADauphin]

From reading over the estimate, he is planning on removing everything in his way to perform the re-paint. Windows, moldings, badges, roof rails, wiper arm, on and on and on. Whether or not that makes the paint good who knows. My earlier question on wet sanding and if that becomes too thin, can you layer a coat or two on top of the sanded clear or does the finish need to be practically perfect for this?