Claying Removes Sealant?

[SamXp]

Does claying really remove sealant? I can understand how it would strip a wax that is simply a layered product. But synthetic sealants are supposed to bond with the clear coat. How does the clay break this bond? Wouldn`t running your thumb across the paint also remove the sealant, then?



The reason I ask is that I just finished perfecting the hood of my car with a rotary and threw two coats of EXP on there before I realized there were tree sap specs everywhere because I had parked under a tree before I EXP`d. I used clay to remove the sap, figuring the EXP was safe, but now I`m reading that the consensus is that claying removes all LSP`s, including EXP.



I ran a search and never found a definitive answer. I`d like to know this, because I also frequently use clay to remove bugs. I want to know if I`m leaving unprotected CC behind every time I clay!

[imported_Yal]

If you are using it to remove contaminants that are bonded to the paint like tree sap its a fair bet that its doing the same to a sealant.



My understanding on the whole bonding sealant thing is that sealants do layer on top of paint like carnuabu but they bond better to the paint and they also bond to themselves better to offer a stronger resistance to the environment. Just my opinion of course ;)

[dshreter]

Claying does not necessarily remove sealant. The way I understand clay to work is that it rides on the lubricant a very VERY small distance from the surface of the paint. When there is above surface contamination it gets abraded by the clay because it is at a height greater than the thickness of the fluid you are riding on. When the clay actually hits the surface of the paint it can mar it. Whether you have sealant or wax on the car, in MY opinion you should be cruising on lubricant above that coating and it should therefore stay intact. Thats not to say you can`t or won`t gently touch the surface of the car and remove the protection in areas.

[kleraudio]

Well, if there are bonded contaminents on your paint, then of course they are bonded to the sealant as well. When you remove the contaminant you remove the sealant that it was attached to as well. I would reapply your sealant after claying for sure.



I cant prove this scientifically or anything, Im just trying to use some logic here (notice I said "trying").



Jim

[imported_Yal]

kleraudio thats the same logic I was "trying" to use too :)

[Accumulator]

I`ve been claying my LSPs (including a few sealants) for ages. It all depends on how aggressively/gently you clay. I haven`t noticed any huge difference between sealants and durable waxes in this regard either.



I clay my LSPs with Sonus green a *lot*; I spot-clay at every wash and do a quick and gentle claying before adding more sealant. It simply *DOES NOT* remove an appreciable amount of KSG, UPP, or BF (or Collinite wax or #16 or some others).



The discontinued KEL/SmartWax clay doesn`t remove LSPs for me either.



Well, I`ll qualify that: when I let my six layers of KSG go for a *long* time (over a year), the spots I`d clayed at every wash (with either Sonus green or KEL) needed redone first...but that was a pretty extreme situation and the claying didn`t have any discernable effect for many months.



The clays from Griot`s and Mother`s aren`t as gentle as the Sonus green, but they don`t take off an appreciable amount either as long as you`re gentle.



I haven`t used ClayMagic blue, but people whose opinions I respect say it won`t strip LSP as long as you`re gentle with it.



The current generation of Sonus gray *will* take off most anything that`s on the paint. FWIW, it seems to mar paint for a lot of people too.

[SamXp]

Well, if there are bonded contaminents on your paint, then of course they are bonded to the sealant as well. When you remove the contaminant you remove the sealant that it was attached to as well. I would reapply your sealant after claying for sure.



I cant prove this scientifically or anything, Im just trying to use some logic here (notice I said "trying").



Jim

Well, using that logic, assuming you start with a perfect surface (just finished with significant correction with a rotary, in this case) and then applied the sealant on that surface, any contaminant would reside on top of the sealant. So if the clay removes the contaminant, it does not necessarily remove the sealant beneath it.



Granted, any abrasion will wear on the protective layer. But I`m still having a hard time believing that those two coats of EXP are significantly reduced. I feel better after spraying a coat of aquawax on top, though.

[David Fermani]

Well, using that logic, assuming you start with a perfect surface (just finished with significant correction with a rotary, in this case) and then applied the sealant on that surface, any contaminant would reside on top of the sealant. So if the clay removes the contaminant, it does not necessarily remove the sealant beneath it.





Bingo!!! :Geezx



On the other hand if you sealed a finish that was contaminated and then clayed it, you`d probably compromise the integrity of the *non-bonded* sealant. Claying is vital to proper adhesion/bonding of any and all LSP`s.

[Accumulator]

This might be an OK time to revisit my clay vs. LSP experiment :D



Find a few specs of contamination that you`d normally clay off. Leave `em alone and apply your LSP over top of them (gently, so the LSP doesn`t take them off through solvent action). Let the LSP set up and buff it off, leaving LSP-covered contamination. You might even let the LSP cure if you think that`s appropriate.



Then clay away until you cut through the LSP (which will be a bit less firmly bonded to the surface due to the contamination, as David Fermani suggested). See what it takes to cut through the LSP and get to/remove the contamination...it`ll be a matter of the durability of the LSP, the aggressiveness of your clay, and your claying technique. E.g., Sonus green takes a while just to cut through Meguiar`s #5, at least the way I use it.



I oughta toss this up as a separate thread sometime so more people see it....

[dshreter]

I think in areas that you get contamination off the paint you`re likely to remove your LSP. If the contamination wouldn`t come off with washing I think its safe to say its stuck pretty good, and its likely stuck to your LSP. When you remove the contamination the LSP comes with it. This doesn`t mean all of the LSP comes off, but it gets removed in specs in the areas of the contamination.

[Accumulator]

I think in areas that you get contamination off the paint you`re likely to remove your LSP. If the contamination wouldn`t come off with washing I think its safe to say its stuck pretty good, and its likely stuck to your LSP..



Could be that my extra-gentle wash techniques factor in to my experience in that regard (and my extra-gentle claying too). Again, I get basically no difference in durability between clayed/not areas. On my wife`s A8 (#16 for the LSP) I simply can`t tell which areas I`ve clayed based on LSP performance.



The type of contamination almost certainly factors in too :think:

[SamXp]

My opinion is that if sealants operate the way they claim - by creating a molecular bond (most likely still a mechanical bond, not chemical, but at such a molecular level, that the polymers are locked interstitially into the clear coat), then the key is surface preperation. If the LSP is applied over contaminants of any kind (oils, oxidation, mineral deposits. etc.), then claying will remove the contaminants, and thereby - the LSP.

But if you start with a well-prepared surface. Polished with abrasives, then your LSP is very likely to withstand claying, so long as a proper lubricant is used to help the clay glide some fraction of a mm over the surface and never actually come into contact with the CC.

[jfelbab]

Clay will remove above surface contamination. When you clay there are many parts of your paint that the clay never physically touches due to OP or the lubricant forming a hydroplane effect. I would not rely on clay for prior LSP removal. Clay will compromise your LSP however as for those areas where direct contact is made and where the above surface contaminant is pulled or sheared off there will be a gap in the protection.



To completely remove your LSP you really need a paint cleaner or an abrasive polish.