DIY car washes...bad soap?

[s14roller]

Hi,



I had a bit of mud in the wheelwell of my car and decided to just swing by one of the do it yourself car wash bays. Anyway, I decided to just spray down my car with the soap they have and then just rinsed off. Now, I`m probably just thinking crazy but does anyone know if the car soap used in those places will strip the wax? I just applied a layer of AIO and didn`t know if I should do it ago. :hairpull

[MorBid]

You shouldn`t have too much to worry about. I actually had a long conversation with the rep for a major manufactuer/distributor of car wash products.



One of the things I wanted to discuss with her was if those soaps strip wax off panels like many claim. She replied not in the least, they aren`t forumlated that powerful enough.



MorBiD

[TrueDetailer]

There are soaps out there designed for the diy aspect of the business that can strip waxes. The only way to find out what they use is to find the owner and ask them directly.

[deadlock32]

the carwash soap itself isnt going to strip wax but the presoaks WILL. The presoaks are actually a more dullited wheel cleaner. If you dont believe that I`ll can prove it w/ pictures of the solutions some time.

[MorBid]

I`m not entirely sure what the exact purpose of someone using soap that strips the protection off the panels on a car in their systems.



Okay so you take your car in there all waxed up and after your done and dry it there`s no more protection (wax/sealant) on the panels? So now someone comes back and says "look what using your wash has done to my car" and I`m gonna.. well do something.



It doesn`t add up to me. Bfore my Autopian (and Audi) day`s I`ve used DIY and automated car washes all over this country in over 20 years and have yet to experience this phenomenon.



Maybe I need to get out more



MorBiD

[MorBid]

the carwash soap itself isnt going to strip wax but the presoaks WILL. The presoaks are actually a more dullited wheel cleaner. If you dont believe that I`ll can prove it w/ pictures of the solutions some time.



It was the presoaks that led me to talk to that rep in the first place. Which in turn led me to some review of what chemicals go into car washes. Below is a snippet of an article I was reading.



After reading that article I came away with the conclusion that it may not be the pre-soak that is stripping the panels perse, but the chemical not being mixed in the proper ratio`s prior to being dispensed.



---------- Begin Article ---------------





One-step versus two-step cleaning. Many carwashes provide the option to apply more than one presoak solution. In a one-step wash, only one cleaning chemical is applied to the vehicle, usually a high-pH (alkaline) product, either a non-caustic or caustic containing sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) or potassium hydroxide (caustic potash). A one-step high-pH product is usually applied as a low-pressure aspirated or foaming presoak, then removed by the high-pressure wash following dwell time. Two applications of the same or similar chemical solutions would be considered a one-step process, but with the benefit of more dwell time than a single application.



A two-step wash typically involves separate low-pressure application of two different chemical solutions. The first product applied is normally a low-pH (acidic) presoak, followed by a high-pH presoak. The low-pH product is considered more effective in cleaning glass and chrome surfaces, and attacking inorganic soils, while the high-pH product is more effective in cleaning painted surfaces and removing organic soils. The two-step process is often employed in an attempt to remove the "mask" or "eyebrow" created by windshield wipers.



In a typical two-step process, the low-pH chemical solution is applied and allowed dwell time on the surface. Then the high-pH chemical solution is applied without a rinse between applications. The high-pH solution should be applied at sufficient strength to neutralize the low-pH presoak, and still have sufficient high-pH cleaning power for additional cleaning.



Caustic and Non-Caustic Alkaline Cleaners. The high-pH application, either as a one-step or second step of a two-step process, presents many choices. Alkaline products are effective in removing organic soils such as insects, bird droppings and garden-variety soils and are effective in cleaning painted surfaces. The aggressive strength of these cleaning agents has proven valuable and cost-effective in meeting the cleaning challenge presented in frictionless washing. Products containing caustics require proper dilution and application, as these chemicals can, under certain conditions, cause streaking of oxidized vehicle paint and clouding of aluminum or chrome-look plastic trim.



To avoid customer complaints and waxing of marred finishes, care should be taken to ensure that products containing caustics are properly diluted to achieve the proper balance between cleaning strength and aggressiveness on vehicle finishes, especially in consideration of changing temperatures. There are high-pH cleaners that do not contain caustics. These non-corrosive cleaners use alkalinity sources such as sodium metasilicates or other alkalinity builders, and are less likely to cause concerns for vehicle finishes, but may strip wax and dull finishes if improperly applied.



Low-pH (acidic) cleaners. Low-pH presoak products applied as the first step of a two-step process comprise a number of different types of active ingredients. Low-pH products effectively clean and shine glass and chrome surfaces. They remove inorganic soils such as oils and road film. The active ingredients can range from a low concentration of a mild, harmless acid such as citric acid, to products containing a relatively high concentration of hydrofluoric acid or ammonium bifluoride. Hydrofluoric or ammonium bifluoride products create serious health and safety concerns requiring strict handling procedures to avoid dangerous exposure. These acids are poisons that are very aggressive and can cause damage to equipment and parts. Several equipment manufacturers strongly recommend these products not be used. Introduction of these products into the equipment may void the equipment warranty.



Low-pH products containing citric, sulfamic or phosphoric acids are often utilized as the low-pH first step in the two-step process. The results obtained when using these acids are typically less effective and more costly to apply than hydrofluoric or ammonium bifluoride acid products. However, excellent cleaning can be achieved with proper application of safer low-pH products without creating health and safety issues and significantly shortening the life of equipment and parts.



---------- End Article ---------------

[TrueDetailer]

There are thousands of diy coin-op bays out there. Do you really think they`re all using the same thing? Just because you know what one is using don`t mean everyone else is.



People buy from all kinds of suppliers, not just auto detailing suppliers. There are soaps out there that will strip your wax off. There doesn`t have to be a reason why someone would buy such a soap, only that they do. Someone may see it as, this soap is really really strong so its going to work much better at removing dirt and grime, thus making my customer happy and making them repeat business. Get it? This is why you should ask to be sure.



Ever use some of the soaps designed for the truck industry?







I`m not to sure about the pre-soak being a diluted wheel cleaner. I`m sure its possible someone might be doing that to make an extra buck. Wheel cleaner at them places are normally acid-based just cause they work better. Um, i would think you would mess some paint up using diluted wheel cleaner. I don`t think most people who own coin-ops are stupid enough to do that.

[Dan]

Any time you go to a place like that its a gamble unless you are using the rinse water. People make mistakes, people use stuff that shouldn`t be used, etc. Bring your own garden sprayer filled with whatever and use that as a pre-soak.

[SVR]

Pre soak in south australia`s coin op bays are deadly. I`ve seen single stage paints go from shiny to looking oxidised and having a line of streaks in one treatment



Fortunately certain places have ok to good shampoo`s and warm water (hooray)

[BobD]

I have two friend who own car washes. I am not sure where you live but in this area, Michigan, in warm months you will find them diluting the soap A LOT and turning down the water pressure. Since it is a cash business the city taxes them on their water usage so they are not scamming. So the less water pressure the less taxes. However, in the winter months, because of all of the road salt, they bump up the water pressure and the amount of soap. Some soaps are gentle and some will strip the wax off. Maybe not in just one pass but for sure after a couple to a few. It really just depends on the owner and what products they choose to use and how they choose to use them.

[BlueLibby04]

I only use the rinse to spray off mud after offroading. If my jeep just has a light coat of dust, I will spray that off too. I NEVER use the soap though.