HT-EC on 4`` yellow not enough???

[dtailmycar]

Guys as you know I`ve struggling trying to detail my toyota tercel. I just don`t know what`s going on with this paint but it ain`t responding to any of the pruduct I`m using trying to correct swilrs and scratches (I know these shoudl come out, I`ve seen much worst here) So far I`ve tried IP, SSR2.5, 3M comp,EC cobined with orange and green pads by pc and per recomendation I went and got a 4`` cutting pad. Even after 2 pases of everything I noticed very little to none improvement. What the hell is happening? Am I done? Is anything else I can do? I`ve bust my pocket and got 0 results, This is really frustrating.... :confused: :hairpull

[fdizzle]

ouch . . . . you may need somthing more extreme than extreme cut . . . if a 4`` pad on a pc at speed 6 taking very, very slow passes and working the product down correclty is not removing defects in the paint, you may need a more agressive pad (possibly wool) and a more agressive product . . . both of which are probably better suited for use with a rotary polisher . . . .



i really dont know what else to suggest . . . i reach for HTEC when hyper compound wont work . . . and that is a rare case.



somt things just take time man . . . for example . . . by gf is going to be trading in her worthless neon for a new car, so i figure id play with my hitachi rotary . . .



OHC on a yellow pad @ 2200 RPM!!! would not remove some of the defects and deep problems on the paint, and i made three attempts, even burned the paint on the hood very very very slightly . . .



it was no big deal since the paints shot and both bumpers are missing all the clearcoat - i did the car a favor . . but some things just take more extreme measures. . . .

[Brian_Brice]

i think all signs point to user error sorry to say.



i dont think youre breaking the product down but i could be way off base. but if you make two passes over a 2x2/3x3 area via pc that is not nearly enough polishing. i would say youre not breaking down the polish correctly, if you were i dont care what pad you were using there would be a difference in something and you say there is zero. i would recomend polishing slower higher rate of speed (6) and make SEVERAL passes, 5 6 7 whatever it takes.

[AL-53]

HTEC on a 4" cut pad is some serious cutting...are you going to fast...what how fast are you moving the PC...is it a inch a second...nice steady slow movement....if you travel the PC to fast..you will not get any cutting done....



I have actually burnt paint with that combo on a test panel...so I know it will cut....I have to say it is user error..you may be going to fast....move the PC like a snail...use speed 5 and you should see results....



spread your polish on a 2`x2` area on 3....once spread kick to 5..work the PC at a snails pace....



also what kind of defects are you tring to remove....marring..swirls..light-medium scratches??



AL

[xinkid]

that is very surprising to hear. If you can, post a video of what you are doing? Maybe people can look at it and give better answers. The above advice is definitely good for technique with the PC. Use lots of pressure and move it like a snail.

[Brian_Brice]

like i said 2 passes is not enough to break down aio let alone a quite abrasive compound like htec i make more than two passes with it via rotary and 1900 rpms. not that aio needs to break down just trying to paint a pic for ya.

[dtailmycar]

*USER ERROR* I`m not sure about that one, but I`ll give it a try passing it even slower. Should HT-EC have a heavy cut we used with orange 6.5`` pad?? I`ll keep you guys informed as I plan on making this a click and brag project. thx a lot for such a quick feedback

[imported_smprince1]

For defect removal you need to apply some pressure. Not 50 pounds of force mind you, but not just the weight of the machine either. You should feel like you are "working" the polish into the paint.



With a 4" yellow pad, speed 6, and some pressure I have easily removed scratches that you could catch a finger nail on.



Just my 2 cents and trying to help.

[01bluecls]

Some things in paint wont come out short of wetsanding. I have recently used HTEC EC via yellow cutting pad at 2200rpms on the rotary without being to remove some DEEP swirls completely even after several passes.

[Accumulator]

dtailmycar- Sheesh, that must be frustrating. I`m sure I`m one of the people who said "buy a 4" pad", so let`s see if I can help any.



First, let`s set a baseline definition of "passes". I consider a "pass" to be a full working of the product, but others might define "pass" differently. IMO there`s no point in using *anything* if you don`t really *use* it, and you have to completely break down products like EC. So to me, a "pass" means you worked it until it`s ready to be buffed off (almost dry). Doing that twice might not resolve the marring via PC. When I did the beater-Blazer, my EC/1Z Ultra mix process was two-four passes with the rotary and then two more with the Cyclo. When I used H-T HC (not quite as potent, but still..) on a RIDS on the S8, I did a *LOT* more than two passes, more like five or six at least, I forget exactly. Now that *does* have hard clear, but this RIDS was mighty minor, most people wouldn`t have even seen it.



So with the PC/4", working EC until it`s ready to be buffed off, and applying sensible added pressure, expect to do it more than just a few times. Sorry to say, it`s just the nature of the beast- it`s mild so it takes a long time. At least with the 4" pad you can use some pressure and really work the product without the machine just "jiggling" the way it does with larger pads.



Using a rotary would speed things up immeasurably but that`s a pretty big step.



If you didn`t already, I`d add something to increase the EC`s work time so it really breaks down before it flashes off (the two can happen at different times).



I wouldn`t switch to a 6.5" pad until you`ve corrected the marring and are left with micromarring.



Other thoughts:



Don`t judge your work by what others have done. I consider myself pretty good at this stuff, but there are plenty of things that other people do that *I* could never do, at least not in the same amount of time.



As mentioned, some stuff just doesn`t come out even when it looks like it oughta :nixweiss I tend to err on the side of caution and live with marring rather than risk damaging/thinning the paint. Others would wetsand and get out the wool bonnets for their rotaries, but that`s them, not me.

[xinkid]

Hi dtailmycar, my first few attempts with the PC were not very successful either, I made numerous mistakes, most of which had to do with using too much product or not knowing when to stop working the product.



What year is your Tercel? I have a 1993 Toyota MR2 that is single stage red and the paint is not that hard but not that soft either.



today I used the 4" yellow cutting pad with Meg`s #80 (because I didn`t have the OHC that I thought would come in the mail), and it wasn`t until I did all of the following - speed 6, very firm pressure, 1/2 inch per second arm speed - that the scratches started to come out. And.. it took me multiple applications too. Granted #80 is much milder than HT-EC but I accidentally went through the paint on some edge spots of my hood :o



I found that the yellow pad will micro-marr the paint no matter how much pressure I used, and getting rid of them required another slow pass with the orange pad. If I had more aggressive product, I wouldn`t use the yellow pad because the micro marring is a pain to get rid of.

[Accumulator]

If I had more aggressive product, I wouldn`t use the yellow pad because

the micro marring is a pain to get rid of.



That`s a good point! IMO, and in this case, the yellow pad was overkill for #80 anyhow, but even with aggressive products I hardly *ever* use yellow pads any more now that I`ve tried the orange light-cut ones. I`d much rather let the product do all the cutting and just choose a pad that allows that to happen (rather than use a pad that contributes some cutting of its own).



And yeah, you *do* have to watch it a bit with the 4" pads.

[imported_Frugle]

I also see 1 pass as being completely working in the product once... 2 passes would be working it in, buffing, and then a second application.



Like everyone else has suggested, I would just work slower with more pressure in an even pace. It doesn`t seem like the toyota paint should be that hard unless the swirls are insanely deep.

[dtailmycar]

Guys thank you all for the fast and *very* helpfull replies. I`ll give it a try again this week, working one panel per day to make sure I work everyhting it as it should. I`ll keep you guys informed and hopefully post some pictures. thanks a lot!!!

[Accumulator]

I might start a new thread about "what it sometimes takes" but as a quick note, yesterday I started polishing the (repainted) hood of the `97 M3. A few deep scratches were obviously too bad to remove, but overall it didn`t look that bad.



I started with the Cyclo/orange/H-T HC. Nothing. Then the rotary/orange/H-T HC..hardly any improvement.



I ended up using *6* passes with rotary/yellow cutting/H-T EC (with a little OCP) with some areas getting even more, and then 2-4 more passes with rotary/white/H-T HC. That was an awful lot of pretty aggressive work and even after all that, a lot of marring was still visible, but I decided to just live with it.