Need help diagnosing this problem please (photos)

[wolfe]

These photos are at around 90x magnification, the top one is of `before`.



http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4084/beforehf4.jpg



This second picture was taken after I gave it a quick pass with a claybar.



http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2944/aftervs0.jpg



I`ve been having problems with this stuff reappearing. I think it could be rail dust but I`m far from an expert. Some of the spots which reappear look like this one (I`m assuming that dark part is the metal particle and the surrounding is a water/rust stain), but others reappear with just the stain visible.



What I`d like to know, is whether it does indeed look like rail dust, and is it possible to tell from the `after` photo whether I completely removed that spot or not?



Is it also possible to tell/confirm that this speck definitely has landed on the car since it was last clayed? (I`m guessing that it did because the particle looks so large).



I`ve been told you need someone with an experienced eye to look at it, and I`m definitely lacking that.



Oh, neat tip I`d like to share as well.. I took those pictures by holding a 30x loupe against the end of my digital camera (the lens surround not the lens itself), then I was able to zoom in on the camera, and I focused through the viewfinder by moving the whole lot closer or further away.



Thankyou for any help.

[Accumulator]

Sorry to hear you`re still struggling with this! Yeah, it looks like some kind of ferrous contamination. As per our earlier discussions, sometimes this sort of thing is so serious that there`s no permanent fix :(



Wonder if Ron K. at AutoInt would have anything to suggest..

[wolfe]

I`ve badgered Ron horribly the last couple of weeks with questions about this, he`s been incredibly helpful with suggestions, & tolerant of my lack of knowledge (as have you, thanks again).



The thing that`s most baffling to me is that this picture looks how I`d imagine fresh contamination to look, i.e there`s surely no way that dark particle could have just appeared from residual rust trapped below the surface of the clear. There is more contamination on the car now than ever, also pointing to the fact that fresh stuff is landing on the car from somewhere.



But then there`s the bits which are returning in the same places it seems. There`s one or two in the trunk jam which I`m 99% sure are not fresh stuff.



I marked the locations of each speck on part of the hood in much much more detail recently, and took a photo before cleaning it off. They should be back soon and I`ll be able to compare with much better accuracy than the method I used last time.



If it turns out to be mostly fresh stuff, I guess I need a car cover.

[velobard]

If it turns out to be mostly fresh stuff, I guess I need a car cover.



That`s presuming that it`s happening while you`re parked. Pretty bizzare. You don`t have any clue what could be around your car that could be landing on it???

[imported_GregCavi]

Looks like ferrous oxide to me. You might look into a Decon kit in addition to claying.



Greg

[D3mon]

Too wierd how there is a perfect circle around the contaminant... can you pull out a little and take a shot?



UPDATE: I guess the blue part is outside the mag. lens. :doh



Yup, ferrous particle jammed in the paint, I`m guessing the front of the car is to the left?

As a tiny bead of water sits in close with the metal `chip`, rust particles are released into the water. Then the passing air drives the rust/water across the surface of the paint, creating the stain.



The clay sure seemed to remove the original `chip` (at least above paint surface level) but if any remaining shards of ferrous material exist below the surface level of the paint, they will continue to rust and produce the stains.



A good quality paint cleaner might remove it?

[wolfe]

Sorry I should have mentioned. The circle is one of those little ring shaped stickers you use to put around the hole punched holes in pieces of paper. I had to use stickers to show the location of the specks because from a distance they aren`t showing up well on camera.



I think it`s either happening while I`m parked, or it`s all a residual result of the dealer not properly decontaminating it before delivery. The weirdest thing is that our other car shows no obvious signs of it (it`s metallic red). Maybe it`s just not visible on the darker paint?

[D3mon]

The `rusty` brown against the red is going to be harder to spot.



Is it possible that this a `pin` hole in the paint that goes right through to the panel? This might explain the consistant nature of the stain, as the source of the rust could be the metal of the panel below the coating, rather than any `newly introduced` ferrous contaminant.

[wolfe]

I`m honestly not knowledgable enough to know. Should it be possible to spot pin holes either at 30x or higher magnification?



Yup you`re dead on too, the front of the car is to the left (this is an area of the hood just before the windscreen).



I can have a closer look, but not really sure what a pinhole should look like!



Now I think about it, the door mirror covers and parts of the bumpers are also affected, since they`re plastic that can perhaps rule out pinholes? The worst affected areas are the hood, roof and trunk lid.



I have tried paint cleaner too, though I`m not sure I applied enough pressure (was my first time using it). I was a bit unsure whether I should have been vigorously working it into the paint, and for how long before wiping it off.



Thanks

[D3mon]

Kind of a worst-case scenario, but if, it is (and I sincerely hope it`s not) indeed a pinhole down to the metal panel, you might spot a remaining dark patch in the paint (as the exposed metal will remain rust coloured), but I would have thought a much greater magnification in that exact area would be required to see that.



In this case, I`m at a loss to provide a long-term solution to the problem, other than stripping, treating and repainting the panel. Whatever you apply to the surface of the paint will simply `trap` in the rust and it will eventually `bloom` out under the paint.



But we speculate idly... this may not be the case at all.



Yes, in the case of the painted plastic parts, this is definitely not the case and will be just embedded particles causing the rust. Have you seen repeated staining in exactly the same locations on plastic parts?

[wolfe]

That`s what I`m hoping to find out for certain any day now. I also marked the locations of every rust speck on the passenger side mirror with stickers, and photographed it.



It`s a little early still to say this with much certainty, because not enough time has passed for the panel I cleaned to look like the parts I didn`t clean in terms of contamination. However some is starting to form, so I marked & photographed it.



On the hood area, there are 14 specks now visible. two of them seem to be in the same locations as before I cleaned it but 10 are not in the same places.



On the mirror, 4 specks are visible. One appears to be in the same area while the other three are in new locations.



So it does appear that most of could well be new rather than old contamination. A few more days and some rain should tell for certain.

[D3mon]

Good luck with it. Sounds like you`ve got the right nature to get to the root of the problem.