friggin` swirls; ready to call it quits

[beefy z]

sorry no pics but i`m sure you`ve all seen swirls posted here before and mine don`t look different than any of them. can`t figure what i`m doing wrong. foam gun wash, easy blot dry, optimum,megs, or clearcoat polish, megs 66 or nxt. premium mf, light pressure. finish is as shiny & smooth as a you know what. cleanest car in the neighborhood. under the dual xenon or street lights, a million swirls. i just tried 4 passes of ssr2.5 using the propel orange pad followed by ssr 1 using the megs 9006, all with the da. an improvement, but still a good amount of swirls remain. car is `03 white impala. what i don`t understand is if the friggin swirls were so easy to get into the finish, why are they so hard to get out. is this clear "soft"? anyone have trouble like this before? am i using the ssrs wrong? any suggestions.

ps- only technique i varied on this car was recently using PBs sw followed by sg every other day; in other words QDing. if QDing did this, its definately not worth the effort.

[autobahn]

SSR2.5 sucks.



Don`t give up until you`ve tried something else - I hit my GTI with SSR2.5 and it did jack-diddly-crap. Removed some of the fine stuff and that`s it. Maybe I was using it wrong, but I don`t know how I could have been. Plus it slung and whatnot like mad.

[imported_truzoom]

I believe GM paint is especially hard, although I`m not sure if it varies from model to model/color to color.



Now, are you seeing SWIRLS or SPIDER WEBBING? Swirls can be tackled and managed from coming back, but you can expect some spider webbing to occur from anything and everything.



How fast are you working the PC? Enough pressure? It literally took me a year to figure out how much pressure to use in swirl removal, and it doesn`t make the job any easier or quicker, but it is done right. If you have the time, spend an evening in a well lighted area and try out different techniques-- for the most part I wouldn`t worry about the PC doing much damage to your finish so experiment with lots of pressure and slow movement, followed by a IPA wipe to make sure the swirls are gone.

[awahl63]

On hard paint I find the PC just doesn`t cut it

[beefy z]

re above posts, i`ve heard about "hard" paint issues, but then, why is the clear so easy to scratch yet so difficult to correct ? ironically, about varying removal technique and working under the lights, i was doing just that. neighbors must of thought i had a load on because i`m standing there with the da in hand under the floodlights polishing the car. i have a dual xenon but its hard picking up the swirls/scratches on the white paint. what does it best is under the floodlights. its mostly scratches, NOTHING you can feel or see except under the lights which leads me to believe something in my process is not right. and it is only recent as i never had this problem before. the pc is set on 5 and i`ve used moderate pressure to a point where you barely see the bad spinning to light pressure where it feels like i`m only "feathering" the paint. it took 4 passes with the ssr to remove anything; an improvement but still alot of work to do. i`m thinking of switching back to optimum polish. on second thought, i`m starting to believe that my QDing might have caused this. i thought i sprayed enough SW on and wiped lightly and turned the premium mf into itself enough, followed by the SG, but maybe the light dust i hard in reality wasn`t light enough and this induced the scratching. anyone else have similar problems with QDing? incidently, is there a "lifespan" on a pad. i`m using pads 8006/9006 that i have used for appx 1 year. still in good shape but would a newer pad cut better than an older one? i want these scratches OUT, not hidden and i feel confident enough to consider moving up to the rotary if i have to.

[imported_Denzil]

SSR 2.5 is more abrasive than Optimum Polish. SSR 2.5 is a great product, if you know how to use it. Autobahn`s reasoning that it sucks because he wasn`t sure if he was using it correctly or not isn`t justifialbe for this product. Look anywhere on these forums and everyone else has had pretty good results with good technique and patience.



We never said detailing would come easy, especially to any newbies.

[Accumulator]

A few sorta-random thoughts follow:



Getting a finish marring free, let alone *keeping* it that way, is very hard. Period. If it weren`t, there wouldn`t be all these posts all over the internet about marring removal.



IMO there`s a limit to how important it oughta be anyhow. Fillers and concealing? Who cares- does the car look good? That`s what really counts to me. I often think that the pursuit of perfection can take a lot of the fun out of the whole car-hobby thing. Not that I let that stop me on some of our vehicles ;) Sorry for the semi-rant :o



Even the hardest paint will get marring, just the nature of it. The sort of stuff that scratches the paint is very abrasive stuff... tiny specks of rocks and other things like that. The "dust" that gets on cars is a lot more abrasive than the dried skin-type dust you get in a house. When this abrasive stuff gets pressed against the paint and then moved, it causes marring.



The hard clear like on Audis only helps a tiny little bit when it comes to resisting marring, but when mild corrective actions like PC polishing are employed, that tiny added hardness makes a big difference. My Audis are a lot harder than my Mazda minivan, yet they get marred *almost* as easily.



No way *I* can QD without marring, but I know others do it all the time. Good for them, glad it works out..but that doesn`t mean it`s right for *me*. Gotta stick with what works for you (heh heh, gotta figure out what that is first).



There`s most likely something wrong with the wash regimen, although even with my over-the-top method I get a little marring from time to time and eventually it adds up. Even with the foamgun, you gotta keep in mind that basic issue- pressing dirt against the paint and then moving the dirt will cause marring.



I`m gradually coming to the conclusion that the BHB/foamgun combo, with a light (barely bending the tips of the bristles) "jiggling" of the BHB (instead of wiping with regular strokes), is perhaps the safest way to wash. With the jiggling, where the BHB is only moved a fraction of an inch at a time, any marring that *does* occur (and it`s not much with the foamgun blasting through the bristles) is so tiny that it`s of little consequence. I get most of the dirt off this way and then switch to a mitt for the follow up, still blasting foam between the mitt and the panel or using the "mitt balloon" technique where I spray suds from inside the mitt. Again, the shorter the strokes you make with the wash media the less noticeable marring will be.



On the pads, some cutting pads lose their cut pretty fast, but polishing and finishing pads can work fine for a long, long time. Doing correction by PC can take a long time (hours per panel in some cases). Try 4" pads, they behave much more aggressively as you can apply more pressure without bogging down the PC.



On the products, if something doesn`t work *for you* I`d try something else. There are so many polishes/compounds on the market that I don`t believe in struggling to "master" a product.

[beefy z]

to all, thanks for the replies. accumulator....so even you had some problem with light marring after QDing !!!!! the more i think about it, the more i believe this is what did it.

unfortunately, i enjoy a 1/2hr qd and would hate to give it up but it has to go if everytime i do it i create this kind of result. like you say, maybe i`m hung up on "results", the car LOOKS and the finish FEELS great; it just has literally thousands of fine lines and scratches that it didn`t have a week ago in which i QDed this finish 3 times. i`ve been using the da for over a year now and i`ve never instilled any additional swirls/scratches to believe i screwed up now in the previous wash/polish/wax cycle 10 days ago. this will be my first real attempt at removing all this damage with a da. then i will be anxious to try my qd technique again under those floodlights to see if that was where my problem came from.

yes, i do have 4" pads and their use is an option. what`s your opinion on the pad pressure for this type correction. do you initially apply pressure and finish off in a feathering fashion, or do you only maintain constant pressure or feathering? would a rotary be a better choice?

[Accumulator]

....so even you had some problem with light marring after QDing !!!!! the more i think about it, the more i believe this is what did it...unfortunately, i enjoy a 1/2hr qd and would hate to give it up but it has to go...



Yeah, I`d bet on the QDing being the cause. I know how hard it is to resist the temptation, at least until you develop a new mindset. I used some of the first QDs back in the day and really messed up my black cars, then I tried newer QDs on my silver cars and messed them up too. At that point I decided to only QD when I really have to (bird bombs, etc.).




yes, i do have 4" pads and their use is an option. what`s your opinion on the pad pressure for this type correction. do you initially apply pressure and finish off in a feathering fashion, or do you only maintain constant pressure or feathering? would a rotary be a better choice?



Be a little careful with pressure and 4" pads, it can be more aggressive than you might expect.



I apply pressure then feather off, seems safer than constantly applying a lot of pressure.



I wouldn`t move to a rotary unless you really think you have to (can`t correct by PC, taking too long, etc.). If you do get a rotary, keep the PC for milder applications. FWIW although I say "not unless..." I don`t really practice what I preach there; I wouldn`t want to be without the rotary (or the Cyclos or the PCs). But then I like tools, it`s another thing I accumulate ;)