HELP - Question about paint swirls on a new car.

[Floriental]

Hi,



I am a newbie with a question about swirls and "holograms" on a new vehicle. I just purchased the car less than a week ago. It was dark out when I picked it up, but I noticed what looked like some swirls but I wrote it off as excess wax (as you can see, I`m pretty clueless about paint care, having never given much notice to this sort of thing in the past)



I didn`t think anything more of it, just been enjoying my new ride. But I did a bit of research to find the correct products to use on this car and as I was reading about buffers, I read a bit more about the actual cause of the swirls, that they were actually damage to the clear coat caused by whoever prepped the car using a buffer improperly. Is this correct? Did I understand that right of is it a case of a little knowledge being dangerous? I took another look at the car in stronger light (the car is black, btw) and sure enough I can see tiny (and I do mean tiny) scratches all over the surface.



Is this something I should be upset about? Does this constitute actual damage to the paint job that warrants going back to the dealer or would that just be anal? Granted, I have no plans to show this vehicle or anything but it`s the principle of the thing, I shouldn`t be paying full price for something damaged. I would appreciate some input. Thanks in advance.

[Ed Fisher]

Another Triple-D !! (Dealer Detail Disaster) :grrr



Well welcome to the hall of pain... You of course need to be concerned since those tiny scratches are gonna fill up with water, dirt and debris to widen up in time and worsen the problem.





EDIT :



I` d go kick the dealer for ruining my brand new baby but it` s all up to you. They may crap it further...



BTW, congrats for your new toy... :bigups

[EMazda3S]

I don`t think I`d go back to the dealer. If they have decent customer service, they will likely want to "correct" this for you and they will make it worse.

You can correct the holograms and the scratches yourself. Dealers frequently mess up new finishes. When buying new, you can ask to have them not touch the car and if they do, don`t accept delivery. That`s next time. For now, do some serious reading and searching here and learn how to remove the defects. Which products, and tools you use make a world of difference. Download the free E-book, it is awesome. Ask questions, post pictures and you will get the best advice and responses. Don`t be discouraged and don`t be alarmed, this happens all the time.

It doesn`t matter if you want to show the car of not. If you are here, you obviously want your car looking the best it can. Again, dealers almost always cause this type of damage and you are not bing anal at all. It`s a dealer installed "accessory" that you don`t want.

Fix it and most of all, have fun doing it! :xyxthumbs



Eric

[GeneralEclectic]

After the dealer destroyed the paint on my new `86 black enamel 535, I`ve told them "do not touch the paint" on every new car. You wouldn`t believe the arguments I`ve gotten! "Sir, our manufacturer requires that we detail every new car.", "Sir, it`s our policy that all new cars are prepped to our standards.", "Sir, we can`t guarantee that the car is free of paint defects unless we prep it before you take delivery." and on and on. Amazingly, I actually had one dealer refuse the sale.



What they did to that BMW was a travesty. I saw the damage to the paint from 100` away. I worked on it for the three years I owned it and made it better, but it was never what it should have been.

[Accumulator]

Floriental- Welcome to Autopia!



As you can tell, your experience wasn`t, unfortunately, unusual. Happens all the time.



No, there is no functional damage to the paint. It`s only as serious as you *think* it is. It`d drive me crazy but it wouldn`t bother a lot of people.



I agree, don`t take it back to the dealer for repair, but I *would* consider taking it to them so you can express your displeasure. They have no reason to do things better if they never hear complaints about how they do things now.



You could try fixing it yourself but it might be more of a job than you want to undertake. I`d consider finding a (*competent*) pro to fix it for you. Then you can concentrate on keeping it nice via good wash/dry techniques, which is a huge topic in itself.



Oh, and despite what some places say, they can deliver cars "in the plastic". They can do whatever the owner of the dealership wants to do ;) Heh heh, my Audi dealer insists on delivering my cars this way as they know how particular I am and they don`t want to mess up my cars (they know I`ll refuse delivery ;) ).



GeneralEclectic- yeah, they irreparably messed up my `85 XJS too :( It *still* bugs me every time I look at it- 90% of its current flaws where there when I first saw it in the showroom, if anything it probably looks better now than it did when I took delivery :rolleyes:

[Floriental]

Thanks to everyone who replied for all the helpful info.



I`d like to shove that buffer so far up someone`s bodily orifice they`d need the jaws of life to remove it! Unfortunately, I didn`t really know anything about paint damage at the time or I would have refused delivery. Alas, live and learn, next time I`ll know better.



I am glad to hear that at least the paint isn`t functionally damaged. And actually, it hadn`t bothered me until I read and found out what it was. So I think with a little TLC it can actually be salvagable. Still, it`s the principle of the thing.



So here`s the next dilemma, I am supposed to take it back and have a hood protector and mud guards installed. I definitely don`t want them doing me any "favors" by "cleaning up and waxing" my car. :nomore: Since I haven`t much experience dealing with new cars and prep departments, does anyone know if it`s safe to trust them to do the install and not screw with anything else or would I be better off just picking up the parts and installing them myself?

[VroomVroom]

Great information here...and I`ve been in the same boat. Most recently with the purchase of my wife`s new Acura, the dealer management was dumbfounded when I requested that they not touch it. They were nice about it, and I actually showed them the car after my first detail. We compared it to one that just completed "pre-delivery" and they all nodded. :)



I dread trips to the dealer`s service dept for this exact reason. I`m always very specific with the service writer, having him write on the order not to do any washing or detailing.



Regarding the accessories, a couple of options come to mind. You can request that they not wash the vehicle. This won`t speak to what they do to the finish on the hood and fenders while installing, but at least it won`t go through their detailing process. Alternatively, you can install the accessories yourself. Using the Acura as an example again, we had them install the steering wheel since there`d be warranty concerns otherwise, but the splash guards (and even the front license plate frame, which obviously isn`t an accessory) were put on in my driveway. Good luck!

[Accumulator]

So here`s the next dilemma, I am supposed to take it back and have a hood protector and mud guards installed. .. does anyone know if it`s safe to trust them to do the install and not screw with anything else or would I be better off just picking up the parts and installing them myself?



Hard saying. I dunno about the hood protector, but sometimes mud guards are affixed via pre-existing holes and other times they have to *drill* holes. Either way there`s a potential for damage and note that bare metal can lead to rust issues, but the pre-existing holes make it a simple job you can do yourself. Drilling the holes isn`t a big deal, but you wouldn`t want to mess it up either.



I myself just live with stone chips and skip the protective measures, but that`s just me.



I simply can`t imagine most dealerships doing the job right and any rust-related issues won`t be immediately apparent.



If you can install the stuff yourself (dunno how big an "if" that is for you) I`d do it yourself. But you wouldn`t want to mess it up any more than you`d want *them* to mess it up so think about it a little bit.



I had this dilemma on our MPV, with the hatch-mounted spoiler that required drilling some holes. I paid my favorite bodyshop to do the work, and I went over all my concerns with them.

[Marj]

Been reading along here and have been in same boat. My G35, black, was prepped even though I told them about how incompetent dealer prep people are. "You`ll be pleased when you see the car" Well when I got the car and looked at it in the sunlight it looked great. I thought to myself, this dealership has got some good people working for them. On the way home, I tell the wife, maybe after a wash or two, we will see if I am wrong and these guys are no different than all the other dealerships. Well I was wrong and it had swirls in a lot of places, not a lot, but enough to drive me nuts. Two years later and a bunch of learning on Infinity paint, its near perfect. Infinity paint took me from a proud professional detailer to a humble rooke, its the worst paint to deal with.

[Ed Fisher]

Been reading along here and have been in same boat. My G35, black, was prepped even though I told them about how incompetent dealer prep people are. "You`ll be pleased when you see the car" Well when I got the car and looked at it in the sunlight it looked great. I thought to myself, this dealership has got some good people working for them. On the way home, I tell the wife, maybe after a wash or two, we will see if I am wrong and these guys are no different than all the other dealerships. Well I was wrong and it had swirls in a lot of places, not a lot, but enough to drive me nuts. Two years later and a bunch of learning on Infinity paint, its near perfect. Infinity paint took me from a proud professional detailer to a humble rooke, its the worst paint to deal with.





tell me the address of that dealer and I`ll go buy a Lexus no matter I dislike the brand !!! :D

[Floriental]

Hi,



Thanks to everyone for sharing their info and experiences. I had been thinking I must have picked the most inept dealership in the state but I now realize it could have happened anywhere.



As for the accessories, I am more and more inclined to do my own installation. I`d much rather risk scratching or damaging something myself than to turn those fools loose with it. I hesitate to trust them even with a "do not wash/detail" order as I have no way of knowing if they`ll follow it or not. Maybe a "do not wash/detail or owner will kick your teeth down your throat" would get the point across.



One thing I`m not totally clear on, the swirling and hologramming are caused by tiny scratches in the clearcoat, right? So does buffing them out further diminish the layer of clearcoat and is this harmful? Can it be buffed out and the clearcoat be re-applied? I`m not sure how badly this is damaged, I`ll post some pics when I can.



I don`t think I want to try and tackle the swirl removal on my own, however, as I have never handled a buffer in my life and this is not the time to try and figure it out. I could practice on another car in the meantime, but it would take a while and right now the swirls on my new car are driving me effing nuts. Unfortunately the one and only body/detail shop I trusted is no longer around so I`ll have to do some searching. Any advice on finding someone competent? My blood pressure can`t take any more aggravation. It seems if you want anything done right you have to do it yourself.

[GeorgePaul]

One thing I`m not totally clear on, the swirling and hologramming are caused by tiny scratches in the clearcoat, right? So does buffing them out further diminish the layer of clearcoat and is this harmful? Can it be buffed out and the clearcoat be re-applied? I`m not sure how badly this is damaged, I`ll post some pics when I can.



Unless you have deep scratches (which I doubt, based on your description of the problem), everything can be fixed by a competent detailer. There won`t be any appreciable damage to your clearcoat. You won`t need to repaint the car. The car will look great. Hang in there. :)



George

[Accumulator]

I hesitate to trust them even with a "do not wash/detail" order as I have no way of knowing if they`ll follow it or not. Maybe a "do not wash/detail or owner will kick your teeth down your throat" would get the point across...



If you`re gonna be going back to the dealership for anything (service, etc.) I`d have a talk with the service manager or even the owner. Worked great for me, but they have to value your business or they`ll just blow you off (I`ve had that happen too).



I`d be more worried that they`d apply the same crappy standards to the accessories that resulted in the marring. Probably different people doing these different jobs, but it sounds like the dealership accepts low-quality work from their employees.




One thing I`m not totally clear on, the swirling and hologramming are caused by tiny scratches in the clearcoat, right? So does buffing them out further diminish the layer of clearcoat and is this harmful? Can it be buffed out and the clearcoat be re-applied?



Yes, just small scratches in the clear; yes, you remove some clear to fix it (like sanding wood), no it shouldn`t be a problem but don`t do it too often; no, you don`t want to get into reclearing, polishing should be sufficient.




I don`t think I want to try and tackle the swirl removal on my own, however, as I have never handled a buffer in my life and this is not the time to try and figure it out... It seems if you want anything done right you have to do it yourself.



IMO you answered your own question. Unless you find a pro that you believe you can trust (maybe a tall order!) you oughta shoot for "better but not perfect" yourself. It`s not *that* difficult, more time-consuming than anything. Attaining true perfection is a different matter, but that`s not what I think this situation calls for. And don`t worry about working a buffer (PC or Cyclo). People with no experience at all do just fine with them; they`re not idiot-proof but if you steer clear of idiocy you`ll be fine ;)

[Floriental]

Hi,



Many, many thanks for all the helpful advice. You guys have saved me many a headache.



Well with some Meguiar`s products and some serious elbow grease (not to mention about 5 hours) the swirls are at least 90% gone if not more. :clap: I really can`t detect any hologramming now at all, maybe a true expert would. In any case, I think it looks great and I am perfectly delighted with it. :woohoo:



As for the accessories, I put the splashguards on today and the hood protector is going on tomorrow. I decided not to let anyone at the dealership touch it.



I`d really only intended to post the message about the swirls to figure out what they were, but alas it looks as if I`ve now found a new hobby. Guess I`ll be sticking around. :xyxthumbs

[Accumulator]

Glad to hear things are getting squared away. Hope things go well with the hood protector.