View Full Version : KAIO + KSG + P21s + Black Paint = Haze after every wash. Help!
rchrest
05-06-2006, 09:00 AM
*****UPDATE******
Finally figured out the problem. My p21s shampoo arrived today. Used a small amount of product in wash.... and 5 min later..... after drying..... paint is crystal clear! Not a single streak. I might actually wash my hair with this shampoo. What a relief! Thanks for all the input! And for what it`s worth: 6 hrs between KSG coats won`t give you streaks!
KAIO x 1
KSG x 5
P21s X 3
2005 Brilliant Black Audi paint....
After using Meguiar`s shampoo, and not too much.... the paint gets a thick swirl-looking haze after I dry it. I can see every swipe I take with the waffle weave. In order to get it off, I have to quick detail with moderate pressure and buff off with a dry MF towel. Paint has good gloss after all this work, but it is very, very annoying that a wash job takes this long. Same thing happens with Meg`s QD. Has to be buffed off. If there is another wash / qd product combo that would work better, what is it? Please help!!
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imported_steveo3002
05-06-2006, 09:05 AM
ive got the same combo on a almost black golf....i cant figure why im getting it!
ive gone back to a syn chamois and it seems a little better
rchrest
05-06-2006, 09:07 AM
I thought perhaps it was the WW, but I could see the haze today after washing and before drying.
imported_steveo3002
05-06-2006, 09:17 AM
i cant figure what im doing wrong...ive tried megs nxt and gold class wash, ive tried giving it a extra long rinse?
all my washing/drying tools are clean
Accumulator
05-06-2006, 09:44 AM
That sounds like a pain!
Dunno just what`s going on, but I`d try isolating the variables so you can eliminate them one by one.
If the wash/dry media is *clean*, as in no residue, then that would eliminate that. Detergent residue might be one problem. I`d put some vinegar in the final rinse, then do *another* rinse cycle and look in the machne while it`s doing it- see if there are any more suds. (Yeah, the way you saw it before drying sorta eliminates this, but I`d check it anyhow.)
Is your water especially hard? You could be getting some kind of deposits from that.
Are you using too strong a shampoo mix? I never use as much as they recommend.
Otherwise, I`d blame the shampoo/LSP combo; some shampoos just don`t work well with some LSPs. I`ve had good results with Meg`s #62 as well as my favorite, Griot`s.
Watch that you don`t let the shampoo dwell on the panels too long, it might be lightly compromising your LSP, especially if it`s a strong mix.
With the QD issue, I`d expect it to be simply a case of its not being compatible with the P21S, but that`s assuming there isn`t some residue on your MFs. Again, watch that you don`t let it dwell too long before buffing it off.
rchrest
05-06-2006, 10:22 AM
Well, the wash mitt I used today was brand new, straight out of the plastic packaging. I could see the haze during the wash, before drying.
--This rules out a wash mitt with detergent residue.
Haze was more intense after WW drying.
--Could be residue in WW, except I use MF conditioner added to detergent with every load.
Quick detailer (Meg`s) has to be buffed off.
--Trend here is Meguiar`s shampoo and QD, both of which I used sparingly.
So, the next question is, is the P21s shampoo the most compatible with my P21s finish? Would Griots give the same results? What would be the most compatible QD spray?
Scottwax
05-06-2006, 10:33 AM
Could be you are applying the wax too thickly or have too many applications without enough time in between each layer and washing is just pushing it around on the surface. Start all over and just use the Klasse twins and see if you still get the hazing.
rchrest
05-06-2006, 11:12 AM
If anything I put the KSG on with minimal cure time. P21s got a day in between applications. I`m leaning toward shampoo, qd / lsp incompatibility.
awahl63
05-06-2006, 03:43 PM
If anything I put the KSG on with minimal cure time.
Minimal as in 24 hours or as in a couple minutes?
rchrest
05-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Minimal as in 24 hours or as in a couple minutes?
5-6 hrs for a couple of the coats.
andrewcbho
05-06-2006, 04:06 PM
I`m using AIO + P21S and I`m having some streaking as well... I`ve attached a pic of it.
http://i1.tinypic.com/xcrxch.jpg
This is *exactly* what I experienced 2 years ago on my dark blue Lexus using AIO, then KSG, topped with Souveran (specifically, AIOx2, KSGx5, Souveran x as often as I had time after a wash).
I would buff the haze out as (as you describe) and after the next wash, there is was. Believe me, I tried everything to keep from having to strip off all the KSG layers...if you want more details, let me know.
I finally fixed it by starting back over from the AIO step. AIO x2 (same day) and waited 24 hours. Then 4 layers of KSG, at least 24 hours in between each. Lived with it that way for about 3 weeks, then topped with Souveran again. All was well.
Best guess I can make is that the wax topper was put on too soon, and the KSG never bonded correctly to the AIO. Talk about frustration, I would wash the car, QD it, and these horrendous looking swirls would appear that weren`t there after the wash...in reality, they weren`t swirls, but an oily film on the paint that would *reappear* after a couple days....
I`d suggest using something like AIO to strip everything off, and start from there again, making sure each layer is properly "set" before moving on. That`s the only thing that worked for me.
blue skies,
Andrew
rchrest
05-06-2006, 06:50 PM
I`d suggest using something like AIO to strip everything off, and start from there again, making sure each layer is properly "set" before moving on. That`s the only thing that worked for me.
blue skies,
Andrew
Yikes! I put so much time into this detail. I ordered the P21s Bodyworks Conditioning Shampoo and DP Waterless Auto Wash for QD. I`ll see if this change makes any difference.
imported_MCA
05-06-2006, 06:51 PM
I have experienced this a couple of years ago as well when I first started using SG and layering a carnauba wax - After much experimentation, I figured that not waiting the proper amount of curing time was causing the problem. I believe some sealants are more lenient that others when it comes to recommended cure times...but regardless of humidity or temperature, I always wait at least 24 hours to apply anything over SG. This may sound extremely high-level and stupid, but I believe the wax was "mixing" with the uncured portion of SG which caused the hazing...somewhat similar to the reason why sealants need to stay dry during the curing period. This would be my best guess.
MCA
dneedsmuscles
05-06-2006, 06:53 PM
KAIO x 1
KSG x 5
P21s X 3
2005 Brilliant Black Audi paint....
After using Meguiar`s shampoo, and not too much.... the paint gets a thick swirl-looking haze after I dry it. I can see every swipe I take with the waffle weave. In order to get it off, I have to quick detail with moderate pressure and buff off with a dry MF towel. Paint has good gloss after all this work, but it is very, very annoying that a wash job takes this long. Same thing happens with Meg`s QD. Has to be buffed off. If there is another wash / qd product combo that would work better, what is it? Please help!!
I tried the same process except I used natty`s blue for wax on the black part of my doors. After wiping off the wax it left a haze on the paint. Maybe I didn`t wait long enough like Scott mentioned. However...I should`ve stopped aftere the SG because the paint had a lot of depth without the wax. :think2