Haze all ove rmy new paint after polishing :(

[fcastro]

Hi everyone, first time poster glad I found a detailing forum



Ok I was wondering if I could get some advise. I had my black camaro repainted about 7 months ago. A month ago I went back to the paint shop and asked what I should do now wax wise care etc. The owner told me to go out and get some 3M Swirl Remover (06064) and apply that to the car. Ok so I got the 3M stuff and I picked up a dewalt polisher and the Foam polishing pad (05738) I applied the product at 1000 rpm. I worked a small amount of it like the guy at the shop told me.



So I take out the car out of the garage looks nice but then I look closer and I see this haze when the sun hits it at a certain angle its all over the paint. I was like omg what the hell happened. This was like a week ago - I covered the car up and left it outside since I was getting operated on. So today I called up the guy at the 3m store and he told me that most likely I used too much product. He said to raise the rpm to 1400 and use a small amount of the product because that was the only way I was going to get rid of the haze. He also said to try spraying a little water and just using the pad with no product to see if that worked. Well today I did half of the car took it back outside and the haze is still there I think a little less then before :(



As far as my application I put a small circle on the outter part of the pad then put the pad on the car spin it (ya it shoots everywhere) then i run the machine back and forth not too fast till the product disappears. I then again wipe excess reside off with the micro fiber cloth. The guy also told me not to clean the foam polishing pad. The first time around after I was done I just hosed to get the swirl remover residue off but again the guy said to just let it dry. I know tomorrow when I go back outside the pad will be dry and dusty (not sure if that is normal).



Ok so that all said and done can anyone shed any light on my situation? I was planning tomorrow to turn it upto 1500rpm and carefully apply the swirl remover again. I am freaked out right now. :nervous2:

[holland_patrick]

wel i know the 3 m stuff is full of fillers and i wil give you kudos on taking a rotary to a newly fpainted car.. it`s a little dangerous burning could happen.. ok you have the foam polishing pad from 3-m.. which is what i started with.. no i don`t know where you are so i can`t say if there is anyone or thing local to ya to get some polishes that are non OTC but for black i like menzerna polishses to leave a nice finish..

[Joshua312]

I would back away from the rotary if you are a beginner - either get a pc or have someone fix it for you. The bodyshop obviously doesnt know what they are talking about telling you not to clean the pad?? I clean my pad or switch to a different one after every panel just to make sure no crud got on it. I second the advice to get Menzerna...Leaves a great finish, FPII will get rid of the haze.

[ed2065]

Ok so that all said and done can anyone shed any light on my situation? I was planning tomorrow to turn it upto 1500rpm and carefully apply the swirl remover again. I am freaked out right now. :nervous2:



I wouldn`t apply the swirl remover again. You need to apply a polish like menzerna final polish with a polishing pad. That should help bring back the shine, and remove the haze.

[Accumulator]

fcastro- Welcome to Autopia!



IMO you`re going about the job with the wrong stuff. A rotary like your Dewalt is not required for the mild correction you`re doing and while some people are good enough with one to get a great final finish many (most?) people oughta follow their rotary work with a dual-action/random oribital polisher.



It can take a *LOT* of experience with a rotary before you can get a flawless finish on black.



FWIW, I`ve never had good results with 3M SMR (though some of their older products work *great* for me) or with 3M pads, but I never worked at it very hard either.



I dunno about the advice you`re receiving. I sure clean my foam pads out (lest the dried product cause micromarring) and I dunno where he came up with the "plain water on a pad" nonsense.



I`d recommend you get a Porter Cable polisher or a Cyclo and use that for the sort of work under discussion. I`d also recommend user-friendly products. Menzerna, 1Z, Optimum, even a few of the Meguiar`s offerings.



IMO trying to fix it with the Dewalt and the 3M stuff is a recipe for disaster that will only result in further frustration and continued thinning of your new paint. Sorry, I know that`s not what you`d like to hear.

[fcastro]

Well I just tried a bit more but I am going to stop doesn`t seem to be helping. I took some pics if you look closey you see the white what I call haze lines when the sun hits it a certain angle. This is so stressing me out as you u can all imagine :(



Ok I have read what everyone posted. Honestly from what the guy at the paint shop and the other guy at the 3m store, they both made it sound simple and easy so thats why I went out and got the dewalt and the polishing foam pad and the the 3m SMR. Looked great when I was applying it inside. I have been applying wax to my cars for years now didn`t think it was a big jump.



I also have a normal sears 8" polisher in the garage too. Based on what people have replied to should I go out to Autozone pick up some polish and try applying that? The sears machine uses those terry cloth pads with the elastic def runs at a lower speed. Hmm I am from jersey I don`t think I have seen Menzerna out here.

[MorBid]

Welcome aboard fcastro. I see your cutting your teeth on polishing a black car, isn`t life fun :)



When you say DeWalt Polisher do you mean the model 849 (Rotary) or the 443 (RO). I`m going to work on the assumption that it`s the former of the two.



First Point:



At seven months that paint and clear is as hard as it`s going to get. You have as much possibility or burning that paint as you have factory.



I`ve polished both (factory new to me and panels/parts/cars I`ve painted either yesterday or a week ago) with a rotary and as long as you know what your doing it`s all good.



What I`m trying to say is that if you have a rotary polisher and want to use it then learn how to use it and save the money on buying another tool.



There is no such thing as a magical "polisher" that`s going to instantly provide a flawless finish. Whether it`s a rotary or an RO you are simply going to have to figure out how to achive the results desired (what pad/product combination to use) for the task at hand



Second Point:



I`m familar with two types of hazing produced from machine polishing but can`t tell from the pics which one your at.



One is like micro scratches (little fine scratches). These we usually call Buffer Swirls and come from running a pad "dry" and/or not using a milder pad and polish combination after some cutting.



The second is just the dulling of the finish. This usually comes from not allowing the polish to break down all the way.



I`m thinking your in the second camp.



I use those 3M pads all the time, but admit I don`t use thier SMR anymore, particularly for the same reason your posting here.



I would keep the pads and tools the same and get another polish either Optimum or one of the others mentioned. You won`t find them locally usually.



If you want to try the SMR again. Make sure you clean the pads well. Do a small section at a time using enough product to get the job done but not too much as it will sling.



Leave the rpm`s at 1000 and when you first start the polisher, put some pressure on the head of the machine the first couple of passes over the area, then lighted up and keep working the product till it`s gone clear but not till it dusts.



Mix some rubbing alcohol and water (50/50) in a spray bottle and use it to wipe the residue off the panel when finished. Inspect your work and see where you are at.

[fcastro]

Morbid thank you for the reply. I actually have the 843 model.



I just got back from autozone and picked up some Mothers Power Polish which is made for buffers etc. I applied that onto the car and then spread it slowly with the buffer then kept doing passes until the product disappeared. I then used my micro fiber cloth and wiped it down. I still see the haze marks unfortunately. I also cleaned out the pad with warm water from the hose and let it dry before I started to apply the mothers product.



As far as the hazing that I am seeing I am not sure. I took the same photo from b4 and outlined in red what I am calling hazing marks. Before when I looked at the paint and the sun was hitting it those white haze streaks were not there.



I noticed that the mothers stuff seems a bit more greesy then the 3m stuff maybe I need to buff it more?



Morbid you mentioned the second option not allowing the polish to break down all the way. Could you elaborate on that one a bit more? (Sorry just trying to really understand) I am assuming that it probably means that when I put the 3m stuff on originally I did not buff it long enough and or I used too much.



Another newbie question is should the foam pad itself always feel dry or not?

[MorBid]

Hmm, I never heard of the model 843, and when I look it up here on their site (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail_listing.asp?categoryID=94) I don`t see it.



Anywho, looking at what you`ve outlined in red it seems more like the first type of hazing I mentioned (little fine scratches).



All polishes need to "break down" in order to work. Most if not all will do this via the heat produced by the machine.



If one put`s too much on the pad and/or does not work the polish all the way through then it hasn`t "broken down" so it`s not had a chance to do any work and sometimes that will leave the surface dull looking.



If your polishing with a dry pad that will almost surely leave buffer swirls (the fine scratches I`m talking about).



One thing is not to sweat it too much and hang in there. Your not going through anything no one else who has first tried machine polishing hasn`t gone through. Like I said before, it`s not magic and there is a degree of learning to it.



Everyone here (almost) polishes under articfical light then cleans the panel and put`s the car into the sun to see if we`ve gotten good results.



Try this.



1) Place a clean dry pad on the machine



2) with a spray bottle full of water give the pad a "light" misting.



3) Put some Polish on the pad (about no more than a nickel to a quarter in size total)



4) with the machine off place the pad on the car and spread the polish around your intended work area (keep it to about 2` x 2`)



5) Set the polisher to 1000 rpm`s and start polishing.



5a) First Pass: go left to right



5b) Second Pass: go up and down



5c) Third Pass: go on the diagonals



When the polish breaks down it will go "clear" at some point after that it will dry out (you can tell this is happening by all the dust you`ll be getting)



The trick is to stop after the Polish has broken down but before it starts to dust. So keep following those patterns I outline until you hit that point.



If you stop polishing before the polish has broken down you will not have compelted any work and if you stop polishing after the polish has gone dry you working against yourself cause polishing with a dry pad will put more marring into the surface your trying to take it out of.



You don`t want to Polish Dry. That is what will leave the marring and hazing your getting.



You don`t need to crank up the RPM`s as your not doing something that needs aggressive work (keep it 1200 and below) if 1000 doesn`t get you anywhere bump it up a little. I`ve worked panels at 1800 RPMS but those panels needed that kind of attention.



Don`t keep polishing the same spot all day. If your not getting anywhere in one place move to another and come back to that spot later, you don`t want to build up heat.



Clean Your pad often during polishing (they have nylon bristle brushes for this) and don`t try to polish the entire car with one pad. Even with frequent cleaning the pad will eventually get caked with polish and working with a dirty pad is a no-no.