99 Pontiac GP Bose System

[metload1]

Hey,



I looked all over, and I can`t find any info on the Bose system that comes with the 99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP.



Does anyone know any specs to this thing? A site with a good description? A model number?



I`m really turned off by Bose, not only do they abandon their products (no info for the version of their sound system on the 99 GP at bose.com) and almost no bass in the system I got... Don`t get me wrong, the mid ranges and tweeters are really nice. Crisp, clear, clean, and I`ve had them REAL loud and have yet to hear distortion, but no bass? Come on. I wish Paradigm did more with car audio.



Hopefully someone has some info... I sure don`t.



Thanks!

[Setec Astronomy]

If you can`t find any info, don`t blame Bose. These systems are OEM only (AFAIK), and I wouldn`t expect the Bose website to have any info since they don`t sell or support them. The info you want might be in the Pontiac shop manual, or you can try emailing Pontiac, or getting cozy with the service/parts dept. at your local dealer. Also, there is likely some forum which someone on here may know about where they discuss this equipment.

[metload1]

Actually, at the Bose site, they have a little thing where you can look through the different makes of cars that have come with Bose sound systems, and get info on them, however, my car is not in there. They have other makes and models of older cars, but I didn`t find the Grand Prix anywhere. I feel that if they are going to give info on something, give all the info... but I guess some is way better that none.



But those are good ideas that you mentioned. Maybe I`ll talk to someone at Pontiac, I`m sure that they still know about that sound system, because there should be plenty of used 99 GPs floating around at the dealerships. It was funny, but I noticed that Pontiac switched from Bose to Blaupunkt. Maybe too many complaints about what the Bose system was lacking.

[Joshua312]

99 gtp owner here...got any pictures? I started a thread just like this about 2 months ago. I just gave up on my idea about switching everything out, decided to live with the sound for now and purchase something different. Good to see another gtp here

[ZeusCGP]

I have to leave soon, but I`ll give you a quick run down.

Your system has 5.25" in the doors with .75" tweeters (I have to double check that). In the rear you have 2 4" and 2 6"x9"s.

The reason the bass is low is that the HU comes with a feature that lowers the bass output as you raise the volume to protect the speakers.

Now your easiest option is to replace your Bose HU with the non-Bose (ACDelco HU) which comes with equalizer sliders. This will get rid of that bass lowing `feature`.

You next option is to add a sub/amp combo to the stock Bose system. This is what I did two years ago. (http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=1905178&appid=&p=1&mpage=1&key=&language=&tmode=1&smode=1&s=#2356578) The bass output was much better. But after a few months I just got new front speakers and a new HU.



So what exactly are you looking for in your car audio wise?



A helpful wiring guide. (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/alitaki/GrandPrix/audio.html#8)

[ZeusCGP]

Just with the sub (TypeS) and amp (M350).

http://members.aol.com/chrissemetis/amp.jpg http://members.aol.com/chrissemetis/sub.jpg



Then I got a HU (9833) and speakers (5000cs). Let the stock speakers alone and didnt even hook them up. The sub takes car of sound from the rear.

http://www.nymcgp.com/media/040417_sals/040417_sals_01.jpg

http://members.aol.com/chrissemetis/hu1.jpg



Then I got a better mounting kit.

http://members.aol.com/chrissemetis/hulight.jpg

http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/hunight1.jpg



Upgraded the power wire.

http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/051015_audio/engine4ga.jpg



Dynamat on the doors and in the trunk.

http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/dynamat/050710_dynamat2.jpg

http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/dynamat/050906_trunk1.jpg

http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/dynamat/050906_trunk6.jpg

[metload1]

99 gtp owner here...got any pictures? I started a thread just like this about 2 months ago. I just gave up on my idea about switching everything out, decided to live with the sound for now and purchase something different. Good to see another gtp here





I found a site that showed how to take the dash off the GP so you can put in a new radio, and I think that`s the first thing I`m gonna do. Yeah, I like seeing people with GP`s on this forum too. I wanna start doing some stuff to make my GP unique, hopefully I`ll have the money this summer. There is another guy on this forum named Luster that did a great job on his engine compartment, check out his pics.



ZeusCGP



Thanks for the advice, I`m most likely going to get a new HU. As far as what I want for audio in my car... The quality of the mid-ranges and tweeters that came with the car sound pretty good, I`m just desperately needing some bass! It doesn`t need to be horribly loud or anything, but loud, and most importantly, accurate. There are CDs that sound so bad without the bass that I don`t even play them in my car. Now what I`m wondering, did Bose put those safeties on my setup because the woofers are cheap and will blow if I get them up too high? If they can`t go any higher then they do now without risking a blow, then I`m defienently getting a new woofer setup. I see that you have a nice looking setup going, how do you like it? How does it sound? I was wondering some stuff...



Have you ever noticed how a lot of people get woofers that are really, really powerful, like 2x 12-inch 1000 watt setups (2000 watts overall), and when they turn them up, all you hear is nasty, inaccurate noise, that doesn`t even sound like bass, almost as if your ears can`t pick up most of what it`s putting out? It`s like it`s loud... but you can`t hear it, yet you walk away with pain in your ears. How do you avoid that? I have an set of Paradigm speakers in my basement for working out. Two 100 watt sattellites (mid-range and tweeter), and one 100 watt woofer (I`m pretty sure the 100 watt rating is RMS, not max). I also have a nice Denon amp, this system is probably about 8 years old now. It is so loud I can`t bear to get it more than half way up... and it sounds good, really good. I`ve never been able to get it to the point where it distorts. The bass is LOUD, it`ll shake the crap outta my staircase, and the celing, and I can hear it, as well as feel it. Yet with 2000 watts of woofers in a car, I can`t hear anything but noise. I`ve even heard better bass from my I-Trigue 3500 setup on my computer than in a lot of cars. Why is this? One thing I know that is a problem, is that not all enlosures are made correctly. A lot of math is involved in making a good speaker box, to figure out the size, shape, and port placements. But other than that, what is wrong? Is there some common mistake that a lot of people make with woofers? How about your system, sound good? It seems like you put a decent amout of work into it. You sound like you know this stuff pretty well. Also, can you make any good recomendations on head units?



Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

[ZeusCGP]

That feature there so when you can make it really loud you wont get any clipping.



You know about audio, excellent, make explaining easier :)



Just swapping out the Bose HU posses a slight problem in that the Bose system is assumed to operate at 3Ohms. Most aftermarket equipment runs at 4Ohms. The choice is really yours if you want to keep the stock speakers with an aftermarket HU. But I would rather not chance anything breaking.

Also it`s not quite a plug and play thing. When swapping in an aftermarket HU you will loss the steering wheel controls, OnStar, and the radiostation/cd on the HeadsUpDisplay. The steering wheel controls you can get back if you install an adapter (like a PAC-X). When I say you loss OnStar I mean you loss the ability to hear or speak to them (they can still track your car). You can get this feature back by gettin an adapter. There is no adapter to get back the radiostation/cd track on the HUD. Also remember the amp is in the trunk. So you can`t (well shouldn`t) send a amplified signal to it; it would be better to run new wires from the new HU right to the speakers.



If you are happy with the system and your just looking for more bass, I suggest checking a junkyard or ebay for an AC Delco HU off any GrandPrix from 97-03. You won`t loss the steering wheel controls, onstar, or HUD this way. If you wanted a little more you could swap the rear 4" speaker wires to the 6x9`s (this way the 6x9 are getting a full range signal). If you wanted a little more you could skip the wire swap and get a selfcontained sub (like an Infinity Basslink).



If you want to have the ability to play mp3 cd`s, and keep the car for a while, go for the aftermarket HU. Just go browsing on www.crutchfield.com and look at a bunch of HU`s (I`m not saying buy there, but they have lots of products specs). Alpine, Eclipse, Pioneer are all good brands.

[Krautfed 03]

Here is my 1998 Daytona 500 Pace Car. Traded in in 2003 for my 1st Audi. Car only had 18,000 miles on it in 5 years!!



For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to actually have my pictures show up!! :wall

[Krautfed 03]

Here are some more.

[metload1]

krautfed 03 nice car! I like what you did with the engine compartment.



ZeusCGP



Wow, there`s a lot more to consider than I thought... I was wondering, how come you can`t run th HU right to the amp in the trunk? There must be something I`m not thinking of.



I don`t have Onstar, so I won`t have to worry about that, also, I`ve noticed that some HUs have a port on the back for steering wheel controls, do I still need the adapter? Or can I just get a HU with that built in? A couple other reasons I want a new HU is because I want to use my iPod without having to buy expensive adapters, or low quality FM transmitters. There are also a few things that I don`t like about the AC Delco one I have, such as the volume button problem, and the CD player skips a lot, unlike the aftermarket HU I have in my Honda.



So there are a few things that having a new HU would help me with, so, if I do get one... am I looking at a total revamp? If yes, what are the best brands when talking the world of car audio?



Thanks!! I appreciate it.



I`m so glad I posted here before trying this on my own.

[ZeusCGP]

Wow, there`s a lot more to consider than I thought... I was wondering, how come you can`t run th HU right to the amp in the trunk? There must be something I`m not thinking of. You could, but you`d have to make sure it was not an amplied signal (easy option in the HU, internal amp off). If not than the Bose amp would be amplifying an amplified signal (one click up on the volume would make things a lot louder). The real reason you wouldn`t want to is whatever internal amp the new HU has, it will probably be better than the Bose external amp. I think the Bose amp puts out 14watts per channel.




I don`t have Onstar, so I won`t have to worry about that, also, I`ve noticed that some HUs have a port on the back for steering wheel controls, do I still need the adapter? Or can I just get a HU with that built in? No you don`t need the adapter if the HU comes with the steering wheel interface input. The hard part is finding good a HU with an input (all the adapter does is read what button your pressing on the wheel, and then send a signal to the IR sensor on the HU. So all it does is act like a remote for the HU. But it`s nice cause you can customize the buttons. Like I made by `mute` button the power button.




A couple other reasons I want a new HU is because I want to use my iPod without having to buy expensive adapters, or low quality FM transmitters. That`s a good reason to get an aftermarket.




So there are a few things that having a new HU would help me with, so, if I do get one... am I looking at a total revamp? If yes, what are the best brands when talking the world of car audio? No you don`t have to do a total revamp. It doesnt seem like your asking for too much. A new HU should suite you just fine. As for which brand... I pretty much just know Alpines. Go to www.crutchfield.com and look through some HU. Alpine, Eclipes, Kenwood, Panasonic and all good.

If you start modding your engine I can help you with that more :)

[Chubs]

Lets see if I can help also. Zeus you have already given him some very good information. I agree with you HU recommendations except for the Kenwood. Kenwoods have poor bass output from my experience. I have had a home unit and played with a car HU and neither of them put out very much bass with the power they had and the speakers they were pushing. I changed out the Kenwood home unit with a Denon and the bass difference was amazing. Too beat all the Denon had a lower power rating. I`m a big Alpine fan. Eclpise is a great unit, I just didn`t like the user functions from a couple years back. They might be better now I just love Alpine now. JVC is also decent I`ve had one and many friends with them.



Metload, you were asking why so many sound systems sound like crap compared to your home unit. It`s all about crossovers. Crossovers send only certain freq. to each speaker. You don`t want your sub playing your midrange, it will sound all muddy and over work the sub. You don`t want your highs playing any bass notes either. You`ll just destory your highs. If your sticking with coaxial speakers then you don`t have to worry to much about crossovers. But if you get into seperate highs, mids, and bass then you need crossovers. One good thing is that alot of amps have a basic crossover built in so you can have a low pass crossover just running your subs. this way no mids or highs will get to your subs. Just letting your subs play all the nots below 200 Hz you will have a much cleaner sounding bass and the sub will last much longer. Take a look at Kraufeds pics. Notice the Rockford Fosgate Symmetery SPX system. This is a high end crossover setup. Mainly for some competition sound systems. I could keep going but I have to get going.



I hope this helps you and if you have any questions let me know and I will help you out if Ican?



Chubs

[metload1]

ZeusCGP and Chubs great info! Thank you!



ZeusCGP



So it sounds like I can keep my current 8 speakers, and get a new head unit. Could I also throw a medium size sub and amp in there? Maybe 500 watts or so? That way I don`t have to crank the Bose speakers up too far. I`m pretty satisfied with the tweeters and mid-ranges in the GP, especially after hearing some other cars with stock speakers. I really like Alpine, and was also wondering how Pioneer is. Are there any HUs that you don`t have to flip the face down to put a CD in? Any specific HU recommendations?



You do engines too? I`d like to get new heads for the GP, a nice 24 valve setup. I`d also like to get a more throaty, intimidating sound from the exhaust, even though I really like the uniqueness of the Pontiac stock exhaust sound.



Chubs



Ahhh, so that`s what it is. The crossover thing makes sense. I was wondering, what`s the difference between active and passive crossover setups? I notice you mentioned Denon, that`s what I run my Paradigm setup with. I`ve been really impressed with their amps.





Thanks for all the help guys! I appreciate it. The internet doesn`t have too much from what I googled for upgrading Bose systems, so your help has been great. What do you guys recommend for cones (subs)? Rockford Fosgate maybe?



Thanks!

[ZeusCGP]

Your welcome.




So it sounds like I can keep my current 8 speakers, and get a new head unit. Not really. HU`s only have 4 speaker outputs, so you`d only be able to power 4 speakers (nuts, I forget how people hook up their stock tweeters and front 5.25"s. I`ll have to double check that).




Could I also throw a medium size sub and amp in there? Maybe 500 watts or so? Sure you can. Aside from the 4-channel outputs, aftermarket HU`s come with subwoofer outputs. That will raise the budget of this project though; you`ll need a sub, amp, box, and wiring kit.

On my system, I just have the front speakers and a sub. The back speakers I didn`t connect because the sub takes care of all sound for the rear. On the special occasion that I have back seat passengers, they complain they can`t hear the music though.

It does seem like a sub may be overkill for what you want. If you do upgrade, try just using the front speakers with the 6x9`s hooked up in the rear (they handle your bass).

Also when I installed an external amp for just the front speakers, the sound quality improved dramatically over when the speakers were being powered by the HU`s internal amp (The tweeters didn`t sound as harsh).




I really like Alpine, and was also wondering how Pioneer is. Are there any HUs that you don`t have to flip the face down to put a CD in? Any specific HU recommendations? Pioneer also makes a good HU. Most of the less expensive HU`s will have a non-flip face. Just browse Crutchfield.com and look for what you want. Then you can go buy your HU on another online store that is cheaper (ikesound.com, hookedontronics.com, etronics.com...). I like the Alpine CDA-9853.



Honestly, figure out what you really want first. I could have saved so much money if I did things all at once instead of first getting a sub/amp, then HU/speakers, then a better install kit, then a external speaker amp.






You do engines too? :)




I`d like to get new heads for the GP, a nice 24 valve setup. Well... they don`t exist. One company wanted to make them for the 3800 community last year, and people were very interesting... until the cost of $4000 was mentioned.

For much less than that you could have GP in the low 13`s with any one of the many turbo kits that are out now.

ps. In the long run, for speed, it is cheaper to ditch the M90 supercharger and go turbo. It`s not for me though, I like the supercharger whine.




I`d also like to get a more throaty, intimidating sound from the exhaust, even though I really like the uniqueness of the Pontiac stock exhaust sound. 3800 exhausts tend to be a little `buzzy`, well at least I think so. The cheapest way to make your car louder is to just replace the mufflers. Although you won`t see any performance gains.

The biggest restriction in the exhaust system is the `U-bend`. Right after the cat there is a U where the rear O2 sensor is. Big restriction. You could have that cut out and replaced with a straight pipe for $80, but it is more cost effective to just buy a new 3"downpipe/high flow cat combo pipe. The next biggest restriction is the downpipe. Even though it looks big, there are 2 smaller pipe inside of it. That`s why the 3"downpipe/cat is so good. A great combination to do with that is to installing headers (expensive) or stock manifolds that have been ported (PEMs, ported exhaust manifolds), will increase performance and give a slightly deeper sound.

I have a Borla catback. This is VERY expensive new, but I bought it used for a great deal. If you just want the sound, replacing your muffler with Borla XS mufflers would do you well. Definitely listen around to hear which setup you like.



Video if me cruising (http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/videos/060104_cruise_hi.wmv)

Video of me going WOT (http://www.nymcgp.com/chris/videos/060107_wot.wmv) (wide open throttle)

(the highflow cat caused an `inefficient cat` trouble code to be tripped. it`s fixed now)




Just letting your subs play all the nots below 200 Hz you will have a much cleaner sounding bass and the sub will last much longer. I know every sub is different, but that`s too high for a sub. 80hz is more realistic.




I was wondering, what`s the difference between active and passive crossover setups? Passive crossovers just block certain frequencies from passing through them. They are pretty simple to setup. Active crossovers have more complex features to them to allow more fine tuning.