HD Speed fillers or no?

[David Fermani]

How is it when you were asked if Poxy has a good filling ability you said yes, but somehow Speed doesn`t?

Good question, even though you`ve taken each of what I`ve posted out of context. Just because I said Poxy fills doesn`t equate the same attribute to Speed because it contains a percentage of it. You sure could have Speed fill, but usually when not used as directed. And not nearly as well as Poxy. Let me explain it further....

Poxy (which is a protectant), is meant to be applied by hand or machine on low speeds. Besides offering great protection, it can also darken oxidized paint and hide other light defects such as spider webbing and minor swirls (in other words fill). If you apply Speed the same way (which isn`t the optimal application), it will also darken/fill. But not to the same level because it doesn`t have nearly the same oil/wax concentration which is what is doing the masking when used this way.

For the sake of even further clarification, I`ll show you what I mean in more detail.

Here we have a non-running beat up Honda Civic that has been sitting for sale on our lot for over a year. As you`ll see the paint is in very poor condition.



I have taped off 3 sections. The 1st is with HD Speed applied via a hand applicator.
Amount used:

On panel:

After:

On the 3rd section I did the same thing with HD Poxy:
Amount used:

On panel:

After:


All 3 panels:


Here`s even a video showing things a little better:





As you can see, both products dramatically improved the appearance of the panel. This was done by way of FILLING. Meaning no real correction was done. Just temporary darkening by way of oil/waxes. What this also proves is that Poxy fills way more than Speed because of the higher concentration of oils. And this further explains how Speed can be used (incorrectly) to fill defects. Had I used a machine to polish this vehicle, the correction would be permanent because the abrasives are leveling defects. The Poxy content in Speed is purely there to amplify gloss and leave protective qualities behind. It will not mask pad marring, defects or holograms despite what you believe.

Not trying to be an A$$, Ben, but I will call this out every-time!

All polishes have the ability to fill, it`s simply a byproduct of the carrier oils/emulsion in them. Add to that some kind of wax or polymer and the filling ability goes up even more!

I completely disagree with your statement about there being greater filling potential because of the wax/polymer content. Any kind of filling in our products will be easily stripped away with alcohol. If you are insinuating that Speed has "durable fillers" you couldn`t be more wrong. I`ve been using Speed at my shop on dozens of cars each day for nearly a year. I work on every car imaginable, have done all levels of correction and I`ve NEVER seen ANY filling what so ever. And I also maintain several of the cars after we correct them (for many months) so any level of filling would be detected by not just me, but by my clients as well. And these are not your basic Fords & Chevys, but high end & exotics vehicles. These cars are polished to very high standards and if their appearance dropped weeks/months later because of filling I`d have some major explaining to do.

I`m not saying Speed, or any product for that mater is INTENDED to fill[/B], but users always need to be sure they are doing test spots and checking their work! When a product is used within it`s intended purpose and assuming the paint is compatible with the pad/polish/tool choice, then there should be no filling with a product. However, when users try to achieve more from a product then what it was designed for (aggressive 1-step), then the risk of potential filling increases. An AIO product like Speed will have the ability to hide fine DA haze or fine rotary swirls and users need to be aware of this.

You`ve obviously followed many posts by happy Speed users on FaceBook detailing groups and there has been several instances where the person stripped the panel (after a moderate and minor correction) and there wasn`t any filling. Yet you feel the need to keep doubting their results? If the abrasives in Speed can level light defects, it is also physically capable of leveling deeper ones. It just takes more effort. Again, many people have done this, stripped their panels and the results are still the same. To go and doubt dozens of people`s results with filling propaganda is downright ridiculous. I don`t know what you`re trying to prove with your very obvious vendetta to constantly discredit people who are satisfied with their results with this product? This isn`t the 1st product you`ve tried doing this to either. Unless you can provide PROOF of your senseless claim, I suggest that people dismiss your opinion as unwarranted.

I love Adapt with MF pads! It offers decent cut and finishes so well a quick follow up with Polish is all that`s needed. On some paints it could easily be used as a 1-step.

I have news (unofficially) for you, but you might have less doubts about HD Speed if you knew that the formula was recently updated and now has Adapt as one of its primary ingredients rather than Polish. Just saying.

I`m not here to bash products, I have, use, and love HD Adapt, Polish, Speed , and even the new 501/502. I just hate when manufactures playing dumb with the whole filling topic. Please stop trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

Despite how ironic it is that you continually state you`re not trying to bash products, what I find interesting is that just recently you claimed to never have used Speed and bashed users for their correction results and now all of a sudden you`re an expert on it? It just further makes me believe you have a vendetta against 3D for some reason despite all the generosity they`ve shown by allowing you the opportunity to beta-test their products in the past. Is this the gratitude a professional like yourself shows by continually trying to publically berate them?

[ShaneB]

Some things may better be left to PMs...

Thank you for sharing what information you have about the product. I understand that minor filling is just a side effect to the product, and personally I am happy with its results as are my customers. Who are your typical ford, chevy, Honda owners just wanting a quick polish along with their $100 exterior detail. I don`t really have any high end cars that I do currently so its not as important to be checking for these fillers for me as most of the time I have to explain what swirl marks even are to my customers.

[RaskyR1]

You can try an play dumb all you want David. Detailers wipe down our test spots after polishing because it`s well known (apparently not with you) that the carrier oils can mask faint DA haze and holograms. Waxes like carnauba, montanic acid ester (montan wax), paraffin, and others typically offer some ability to fill defects. Polydimethylsiloxane (aka silicone aka polymers) most typically fill to some degree as well.

Speed has only been on my radar simply because there have been a lots of post about it lately and you have been posting this BS. If another product comes up you will see me saying the same thing. Just like I`ve done with UF and SPF.

Funny how you were quick to comment how some competitors at the SEMA challenge supposedly filled.

Received May 12th


Speed used on this


This


And 501/502 used on this




ShaneB, My post was simply to let you know all polishes have the ability to fill and when they contain a wax or sealant that ability increases. I`m not saying any of these products have intended fillers, it`s simply a byproduct. Check your work and you will be fine!

[David Fermani]

You can try an play dumb all you want David. Detailers wipe down our test spots after polishing because it`s well known (apparently not with you) that the carrier oils can mask faint DA haze and holograms. Waxes like carnauba, montanic acid ester (montan wax), paraffin, and others typically offer some ability to fill defects. Polydimethylsiloxane (aka silicone aka polymers) most typically fill to some degree as well.

Speed has only been on my radar simply because there have been a lots of post about it lately and you have been posting this BS. If another product comes up you will see me saying the same thing. Just like I`ve done with UF and SPF.

Funny how you were quick to comment how some competitors at the SEMA challenge supposedly filled.

You would have to be using a very harsh pad on very soft paint to witness DA pad marring with Speed. That, and your pad will have to be quite dirty which is a shame if that`s how you roll. Besides that, it will work flawlessly just like the countless people have been exhibiting. And to go further, many of them are wiping down their test spots and nothing is returning, so that proves contrary to your hypothesis. I have yet to see any documentation supporting anything you`ve fabricated about Speed filling beyond that. The oils Tunch uses in his polishing compounds is very light and takes very little to remove from the surface if desired. We can talk until we`re blue in the face about carrier oils, but if you don`t understand how they work it doesn`t matter.

I find it funny how you go from saying you have no use for a product like Speed and all of a sudden you use in on 2 cars in a very short time. It must of performed well (especially on swirled/halogrammed up hard black paint) if you decided to use it again.

As far as the SEMA competition, I have dozens of pics/videos to document how their panels looked after a simple alcohol wipe down that I`ve chosen to not post out of professional courtesy. In fact, I was asked by many people who attended the event (as well as people who didn`t) to post them, but I decided against it. As far as 3D is concerned, we finished the quickest and none of our work was filled which wasn`t the case with several others.

[ShaneB]

ShaneB, My post was simply to let you know all polishes have the ability to fill and when they contain a wax or sealant that ability increases. I`m not saying any of these products have intended fillers, it`s simply a byproduct. Check your work and you will be fine!

thank you for your input as well. I didn`t mean to word my last post as being directed only at Ben or David.

[Thomas Dekany]

As a 1 step product, my last concern would be whether SPEED hides or not. Pretty sure the OP isn`t getting top $$$$ for the detail, the objective is a fantastic looking finish. And Speed provides it.

OP - while you maybe impressed with SPEED, I think it is the RUPES that is providing the amazing correction for you.

[Meticulous]

[ShaneB]

As a 1 step product, my last concern would be whether SPEED hides or not. Pretty sure the OP isn`t getting top $$$$ for the detail, the objective is a fantastic looking finish. And Speed provides it.

OP - while you maybe impressed with SPEED, I think it is the RUPES that is providing the amazing correction for you.

I don`t doubt the Rupes is doing a lot of the work. What led me to ask about fillers was the fact that I didn`t work the product very much. Did 3 section passes in no more than 30 seconds and was impressed with the results. So I just got curious.

ill probably do some experiments next time I use the combo and see what results I get after an IPA wipe, slower arm speed, more passes etc.

[Thomas Dekany]

I used to work for 3D - so I do know the product pretty well. if you happen to have a pc, try the same. See how the finish looks.

You can also use an aggressive compound with a soft finish pad - one that doesn`t hide: with a soft pad it will.

As I said, and I realize that it is good to know, with a 1 step, the objective shouldn`t be removing swirls vs hiding them. If that is what you are after, simply use hd adapt and apply poxy on top. In my book, speed doesn`t hide.

I don`t doubt the Rupes is doing a lot of the work. What led me to ask about fillers was the fact that I didn`t work the product very much. Did 3 section passes in no more than 30 seconds and was impressed with the results. So I just got curious.

ill probably do some experiments next time I use the combo and see what results I get after an IPA wipe, slower arm speed, more passes etc.