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  1. #31
    512detail's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    Or in this case, where the op wants to test durability without adding anything. (or possibly clogging the coating)
    pbl needs to be topped IMHO


    Brandt K.

  2. #32
    kevincwelch's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    I always thought the repellent nature of coatings to be due to molecular forces rather than physical space.

  3. #33
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincwelch View Post
    I always thought the repellent nature of coatings to be due to molecular forces rather than physical space.
    The reaon I hope Mike pops back on here to explain.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

  4. #34
    512detail's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    yes, I once asked Todd H about the literal science behind PBL and the top of the surface left behind as a result of a layer and never really got a full answer to satisfy my scientific curiosity...

    I`d be interested in hearing from someone who knows about this as well.

    I can logically see the side Ron is alluding to, as that would logically explain the "clogging" effect but I also thought of a coating as creating a smooth molecular surface, so I guess I am confused...hence why I`d like some explanation. As detailed as possible is preferable....I like to learn more.


    Brandt K.

  5. #35
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBM View Post
    I have just about every rinseless out there, I use them all without thinking twice and none of them have affected the CQUK on my vehicles.

    Gary Dead has a new coating/wash/spray system that will make the coating last forever with the system. Launching in March officially.

    Reps for optimum say you can paint over a dried ONR vehicle without bonding issues.
    Whatever ONR leaves, it ain`t a whole lot. Certainly not like Uber and UWW.
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  6. #36
    kevincwelch's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    I may be completely off base here, but this is what I have read (and possibly misunderstand).

    Coatings do two things: they fill a variable geometry space with small molecules to create a physical filler and create a hydrophobic surface. There is some bonding with the substrate. This is what produces the glossy reflective nature of a coated surface - more uniform surface for reflection. That`s the physical space. The restructuring results in an arrangement of smoothly lined particles. But, perhaps, on a nano scale, there is some corrugation to this. The hydrophobicity depends upon the molecular make-up of the coating (silica, titania) and how those molecules interact with each other and repel polar molecules like water, which has a strong dipole moment. Due to silica`s arrangement, it becomes strongly hydrophobic. Perhaps more to what Ron is suggesting, as I understood it, on a molecular level there are small divots or air pockets that increase the contact angle. I have no idea how that occurs, but I can`t see how those small spaces could be filled by a polymer of any sorts.

    (I take this to mean that very few things applied to a coating will have an longevity since the solvent for a good deal of what we apply is water.)
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  7. #37
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    The gloss shop who makes trifecta is also supposed to be coming out with a rinseless that leaves nothing behind. Although I`m not sure when it`s supposed to release.

    I`d say for your purpose either this (depending when it comes out) or the new auto geek rinseless will be your best bet.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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  8. #38
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    I use 3D rinse free wash and I believe it leaves nothing behind.


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  9. #39
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    Or in this case, where the op wants to test durability without adding anything. (or possibly clogging the coating)
    That right.

    I wanna see if the PBL coating is legit or not. Many rinseless washes will add "something". that causes beading/sheeting.

    I wanna see how this coating is on it`s own, or perhaps topped w/ the PBL coating booster at one point (but not as a Band Aid if the coating fails)

    If I only get 6 months outta this stuff on it`s own, it`s a total waste IMHO. Yes it`s easy to apply, but so is Collinite.

    I don`t see much of a point having to "top" or "boost" a coating. Because, I can just use wax and a spray wax after each wash and pretty much accomplish the same effect.

    So, I`m trying to see if this stuff is technology for the sake of technology - or we really have something better here.

    A coating that is no harder to apply than a durable wax, but no better.

    -OR-

    A coating that is no harder to apply than a durable wax, but lasts significantly longer.

    So far,

    1. PBL coating was ridiculously easy to apply. Basically, you could put it on as heavy as you want with an old sock and it would come out fine.

    2. Initial beading is legit (I know, that doesn`t mean much).

    3. I followed the installation instructions to the letter. I used IPA / Earaser as a wipedown prior to polishing with the PBL Surface Prep Polish. I polished every nanometer of the paint - areas unable to use a machine I used a new foam hand pad. Nothing touched the paint after the prep polish.

    I used 2 brand new towels and 2 new LC coating applicator sponges. Believe me, there was no user error here. So if it ain`t no better than a long lasting wax or sealant - it won`t be my fault.


    *** I guess I will use regular old ONR blue until something better comes along. I thought of using that and using Eraser as a drying aid to judge the true condition of the coating.
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  10. #40
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    ONR works fine. You could just stick with a bucket wash and something like Reset until the McKee`s rinseless comes out.
    Competition Ready Team 1929 Bentley
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    2002 Arctic White Chevy Camaro SS

  11. #41
    kevincwelch's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    I did not find PBL to be durable at all. In 3 months, it slowly sheeted and was gone within 6. I had a four panel test, but the thread got locked because it deteriorated. That was v1 though.

    Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time. (Voltaire)
    2013 TESLA MODEL S | 2015 Toyota Highlander

  12. #42
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincwelch View Post
    I did not find PBL to be durable at all. In 3 months, it slowly sheeted and was gone within 6. I had a four panel test, but the thread got locked because it deteriorated. That was v1 though.
    Woah wait the thread got locked because PBL failed?

  13. #43
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    PBL V2 has been on my moms car for over a year and is doing just fine. I`ve used the coating booster maybe a handful of times. I did decon wash it at the 1 year mark and switched to ONR around the 10 month mark.
    Competition Ready Team 1929 Bentley
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  14. #44
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    Woah wait the thread got locked because PBL failed?
    No. Nothing like that. The discussion quickly blew up with people making accusations about companies selling products that don`t work and other things that get threads closed. I honestly think that it wasn`t closed because of the negative review. I was careful in my testing and careful with my wording. It was all the other stuff....

    Anyway, back on topic.

    I can see now the value of having a wash that leaves nothing. If you`re going to boost the coating with PBL Booster (or PA Viking or some other silica coating spray), having a clean surface with only the coating on top would be preferred.

    Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time. (Voltaire)
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  15. #45
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Any Rinseless Washes 4 Coatings?

    McKee`s is out. Have Paul hook it up.

    McKee
    Competition Ready Team 1929 Bentley
    1999 Silvermist Metallic Pontiac Grand Prix GT
    2002 Arctic White Chevy Camaro SS
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