Minimum Wage

[davidc]

College as a right might be a high end dream, but not all are cut out for higher education, or cut out for white collar jobs. To quote a line from caddy Shack, "The world needs ditch diggers too".

No Im not being crass with that comment. Its a fact. People talk about how bad out infrastructure is, well............ Then it sounds like free college group believes that jobs like road pavers etc. are beneath them. Now I understand why liberals are in favor of illegal immigration. Americans are too good to do menial jobs......... Im sure we all know someone who went to school, and "cant find work" but refuses to go to McDonalds and work till they find something better. So they live in their parents basement........... They start blaming their lot in life as problems outside of their control instead of taking control of their own destiny.

I have done my share of the ditch digging. Back in my construction days when electrical conduits had to be run under ground the ditch digging was/is part of the job. Even today I do some things that I think tedious and a trained monkey could do it. I still do those as it is still part of the job. I did not go to college as I learned a trade and either paid for the education or learned on my own or watching people that had the experience. That idiology seems to have died over the years and I see young people all the time that do not put any effort into their job. My personal belief is the world will be a much worse place when the people that have the knowledge, experience and effort retire or die.

Dave

[Ronkh]

I have done my share of the ditch digging. Back in my construction days when electrical conduits had to be run under ground the ditch digging was/is part of the job. Even today I do some things that I think tedious and a trained monkey could do it. I still do those as it is still part of the job. I did not go to college as I learned a trade and either paid for the education or learned on my own or watching people that had the experience. That idiology seems to have died over the years and I see young people all the time that do not put any effort into their job. My personal belief is the world will be a much worse place when the people that have the knowledge, experience and effort retire or die.

Dave

And I gather you made a reasonable wage as well. Please forgive my assumption, but.....

And I agree. These people have a lot of wisdom and experience to pass on.

[Lonnie]

....
Your Masters in Education, gives me mixed emotions as I generally feel that those with similar credentials are driving our Education System into the Ditch.

This "idiotology" is the exact reason teachers do not receive the respect that they deserve in todays society. Both my parents (my father Is deceased) were teachers who earned their Masters Degrees while teaching and raising my 4 other siblings. They were not the greatest teachers in the world, as I had my own mother for a teacher for Junior English in high school, and she gave me my lowest grade in all my regular classes; a grade I rightly deserved because I did not LIKE English. My Mom earned her Masters degree in Guidance Counseling and inspired and directed the lives of many of the young people in my small-town rural community in Northeast Wisconsin. Her real dream profession was to become a doctor, but like many who start down that path, discovered the educational challenges in becoming one, and changed her career path into education. So while she could not help people with their physical problems, she did help hundreds of young people in their career choices and a lot of other problems that young people face in early life. So while I may be very biased because she was an outstanding Mother and Christian parent in the truest sense of the word, when someone "insults" educators who have higher degrees, I take great exception to that. Granted, there ARE teachers who are not that great and the axiom of, "Those that cannot end up teachers" may be true. Even the Karate Kids Mr. Kesuke Miyagi remark "No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher" may be something we buy into as a society, I have to defend teachers as a great asset to todays society. As the bumper sticker says, "If you can read this, thank a teacher!"

[Stokdgs]

Lonnie -
This is so true... Thank You !

There are very good teachers still out there but unfortunately, I personally have seen many of them in really great schools in the Pacific Northwest for example, that come to class wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts...

I went to a class for one of my stepkids way back then and did not recognize the young girl who looked like the kids in the class as the teacher !
This is so wrong...

When I went to school back in Texas, all the teachers wore nice clothes like you would wear to Church, every day...
The women wore nice dresses or skirts with an appropriate top; the men wore slacks and a white short sleeved shirt and tie..

You looked at them and knew, (because you were raised to respect your elders), that they were in charge and they earned and commanded your respect for them, by being nice, firm, and fair to all..

They told us, they were going to teach us many things - most importantly, how to survive in the world when we grew up..

Consequently, we learned way, way, higher levels of English, Math, History, Government, the Sciences, and Physical Ed, so we all indeed, did make it, and without any further education, did just fine.. Higher Education only made it so much better, because your brain was exercised in ways and levels that just helped so much more..

We could all read, write, and spell, as good as anyone in a spelling bee; we could add, subtract, divide, multiply extremely well, and counting out change without any electronic aids, was so easy, because good teachers taught you how.. And no annoying formulas, tables, huge number strings, all that stuff there is today...

I will not bemoan what faces us every day we go up to a checkstand or similar situation, look at the person, and infrequently, see maybe just a few people there that are trying hard to get ahead...

It has been proven that throwing money at people will Never - help them out...

We as human beings have inside us all the genes that tell us that we need to work, work hard, work honestly to provide for ourselves and families, and then be able to sleep the deep, comforting, healing sleep, that only comes to those that are honest in all of their dealings...

Again, another example of how everyone that can, needs to Earn their way to where they want to go - no substitutes are possible..

Then, and only then, will this world be able to heal one of the many plagues that is upon it...
Dan F

[Bunky]

It sometimes is a lot of teaching but not a lot of learning (listening). This comes from parenting. Teachers should not be blamed for parenting problems. Parents need to stay involved in the learning process.

[Ronkh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbuBqG9HeP0

[Accumulator]

..There are very good teachers still out there but unfortunately, I personally have seen many of them in really great schools in the Pacific Northwest for example, that come to class wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts...This is so wrong.

When I went to school back in Texas, all the teachers wore nice clothes like you would wear to Church, every day...
The women wore nice dresses or skirts with an appropriate top; the men wore slacks and a white short sleeved shirt and tie..

You looked at them and knew...

Yeah, the appearance matters. Teachers are not their students peers. A classroom isnt the Mall or a Park, let alone a beach. I still remember which teachers dressed casually when I was a kid- permanent negative impression. And "casual" back then meant a short-sleeved shirt when it was hot or a sweater in the winter.

Back when my wife and I were teaching (at a State C&T College), I was a considered unusual in that I *always* wore a suit when I lectured and I kept my (very conservative) tie snugged up and my sleeves rolled down in the Computer Lab, where other faculty dressed *very* casually. Even when the A/C broke. Winter? I wore a topcoat, not a parka. No other male on the faculty dressed like that and some of them smirked about my looking "corporate". But...

Word quickly got around that the students were *really* impressed and there was *zero* question that it made a difference to many of them. Heh heh, the comments from the female students were especially gratifying (my wife still chuckles about some of the things they said), they even noticed that I never wore a pair of rubber-soled shoes when on-campus. The professional appearance (and my generally formal demeanor) effectively conveyed that I respected both the job and the students and that I was a serious guy doing a serious job, giving them their (or at least their parents ) moneys worth.

"Look sharp, be sharp" as the saying goes.

[jrock645]

Yeah, the appearance matters. Teachers are not their students peers. A classroom isnt the Mall or a Park, let alone a beach. I still remember which teachers dressed casually when I was a kid- permanent negative impression. And "casual" back then meant a short-sleeved shirt when it was hot or a sweater in the winter.

Back when my wife and I were teaching (at a State C&T College), I was a considered unusual in that I *always* wore a suit when I lectured and I kept my (very conservative) tie snugged up and my sleeves rolled down in the Computer Lab, where other faculty dressed *very* casually. Even when the A/C broke. Winter? I wore a topcoat, not a parka. No other male on the faculty dressed like that and some of them smirked about my looking "corporate". But...

Word quickly got around that the students were *really* impressed and there was *zero* question that it made a difference to many of them. Heh heh, the comments from the female students were especially gratifying (my wife still chuckles about some of the things they said), they even noticed that I never wore a pair of rubber-soled shoes when on-campus. The professional appearance (and my generally formal demeanor) effectively conveyed that I respected both the job and the students and that I was a serious guy doing a serious job, giving them their (or at least their parents ) moneys worth.

"Look sharp, be sharp" as the saying goes.

Its amazing how times have changed. Nowadays, people cant even be bothered to wear a jacket and tie for a special occasion dinner. It really bugged me having an anniversary dinner with my ex, at $350 for the two of us and meanwhile theres people in there wearing a tracksuit. I dont know when dressing reasonably well became such an inconvenience for everybody.

I remember my grandfather telling a story about his mechanic back in the 50s. Of course the guy wore coveralls in the shop, but underneath it was a shirt and tie. Always. When he was talking to customers he always presented himself with a shirt and tie, not a grubby t-shirt and jeans like so many nowadays. Where did any sense of class go in this country?

[Accumulator]

jrock645- Yeah, sigh...these days Im often the only guy at a place wearing a jacket and tie. Even situations where *everybody* used to be in Black Tie, its just not done by most people these days. Ive actually had people ask me whether I feel odd being the only guy "dressed up" I usually respond that Id feel uncomfortable if I felt I were dressed inappropriately or, if I want to avoid the implied insult in that, I say that my ancestors would spin in their graves if I dressed casually.

Thats a great one about your grandfathers mechanic, and there was still a bit of that when I was younger (favorite Service Manager ever always dressed well). Reminds me of the elderly neighbor who recently passed away- even in the height of summer, he would be outside doing yardwork (for hours) wearing crisply starched-and-pressed work clothes, looked like an ad from the 30s. He was an immigrant from Macedonia who had a very tough life and felt privilaged to live in the USA and I guessed that factored in. You could tell by looking at him that he wasnt just the average old guy next door.

Hey, I went through a phase when I wore jeans/black t-shirt/leather jacket/engineer boots most of the time. (And I remember how various demographics responded to that.) But it didnt last all that long and these days I seldom even wear jeans to the barbershop or grocery store, let alone when I breakfast at Dennys. Simply not how I roll.

I tend to think that a lot of the casual attire has to do with many people being out-of-shape, but thats just a guess as I never seem to get a straight answer from people I know well enough to ask about it. "More comfortable" they say, but I just dont experience that. I mean... have lots of athletic attire; I wear it when I exercise. But its not like my sweats are comfortable but my cut-and-sewn clothes are not, or my running shoes moreso than my dress shoes. If clothing/footwear isnt comfortable I dont buy it in the first place.

[Bill D]

You should see it here in FL. A shirt without sleeves is considered well within the norm. I work from home and could dress like a bum all I want but youll never see me without a shirt with buttons tucked in of course. Im comfortable wearing them but I often stand in many public places. I honestly believe there is such a thing as too casual.

[Accumulator]

Yeah, Accumulatorettes home-state of TN gets *HOT & HUMID* but some people there dress nicely all the time. Here in OH, by the time its 75◦...

No surprise that *YOU* dress nicely, Bill!

[Bill D]

Why thanks

[Stokdgs]

Remember the old saying - "Clothes make the man" ???

I know that there are a bunch of incredibly rich millionaire kids up there wearing hoodies, etc, to work and all, and I just think, how much more Credible they would be perceived if they just wore what the rest of the millionaires/billionaires wore to work...

Along with losing respect for about everything good in Society today, unfortunately many are losing respect for themselves as well..
Dan F

[Ronkh]

For occasions I always learned to dress well. You can always take over dressed and make it down dressed but you cant up dress tatters.

[Swanicyouth]

As a side note I was talking to our Denmark distributor about their high taxes 60% and higher .. and he explained briefly that they pay high taxes and get free education through college , are trained for high technology jobs, have great free / or low cost medical, and have a very high pay scale due to their ability to take high end jobs. The people working the service industry are usually foreigners ... yes they are a small country, but it is something to think about.

I see stuff like this and I want to puke. Denmark. This is supposed to me America. A place where everyone has a chance to make something of themselves - and not a place where they are penalized if they succeed.

America doesnt need free anything - or higher taxes. We need our citizens to get of their azzes and make it happen for themselves.

What great thing in the history of the world has Denmark done?? Make cheese?