New life for the old family SUV

[e21pilot]

I`m a newbie to this board and to detailing in general. We have a Toyota SUV that`s been the grocery grabber for years. Although it is old, the driveline and interior are still in great shape. Only the original factory white and dent free exterior looks shabby because of the oxidized white paint, some black overspray it picked up at the high school auto shop and dozens of paint chips on the nose and hood, some of which started to rust.

I have more time than $$$ right now and decided it would be a good learning experience to try bringing the exterior back to life myself.

Through a guy at work, I have access to a Flex orbital and DA buffer and I have a small budget for detailing tools, polishes and waxes.

My questions are:
Should someone like me with zero experience attempt to use these buffers or am I likely to do more damage than good?
Is it possible to make a difference in this old paint if I stick to elbow grease?
What is a good way to fill in the chips in the paint and get rid of rust in the chips?
Should I take care of the chips first and then polish or the other way around?
How can I deal with the black overspray? It has been on the paint for years and I can`t even get it off with my finger nail.
If I can use a buffer, what pads/polishes/waxes should I buy? I don`t mind spending more for quality as I only have one vehicle to do.
If I do end up polishing the 20 year old paint, will I have removed so much of finish that the paint won`t last long after that?

Many thanks!

[Buster906]

I`m a newbie to this board and to detailing in general. We have a Toyota SUV that`s been the grocery grabber for years. Although it is old, the driveline and interior are still in great shape. Only the original factory white and dent free exterior looks shabby because of the oxidized white paint, some black overspray it picked up at the high school auto shop and dozens of paint chips on the nose and hood, some of which started to rust.

I have more time than $$$ right now and decided it would be a good learning experience to try bringing the exterior back to life myself.

Through a guy at work, I have access to a Flex orbital and DA buffer and I have a small budget for detailing tools, polishes and waxes.

My questions are:
Should someone like me with zero experience attempt to use these buffers or am I likely to do more damage than good?
Is it possible to make a difference in this old paint if I stick to elbow grease?
What is a good way to fill in the chips in the paint and get rid of rust in the chips?
Should I take care of the chips first and then polish or the other way around?
How can I deal with the black overspray? It has been on the paint for years and I can`t even get it off with my finger nail.
If I can use a buffer, what pads/polishes/waxes should I buy? I don`t mind spending more for quality as I only have one vehicle to do.
If I do end up polishing the 20 year old paint, will I have removed so much of finish that the paint won`t last long after that?

Many thanks!

Since you are new to detailing, welcome to the addiction. To gain experience go to a salvage yard and find a cheap hood or fender and practice. For the chips, I would correct those first and move on to the finish correcting. If you have clear coat still remaining, you will be leveling the clear coat not the color. Autogeek and Autopia have quality pads. Lake Country and Meguiars are my go to pads. But have fun. Use the DA at your disposal first. As you gain experience then try a rotary on a used fender or hood. Others will give advice as well.

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[etnops]

I`m a newbie to this board and to detailing in general. We have a Toyota SUV that`s been the grocery grabber for years. Although it is old, the driveline and interior are still in great shape. Only the original factory white and dent free exterior looks shabby because of the oxidized white paint, some black overspray it picked up at the high school auto shop and dozens of paint chips on the nose and hood, some of which started to rust.

I have more time than $$$ right now and decided it would be a good learning experience to try bringing the exterior back to life myself.

Through a guy at work, I have access to a Flex orbital and DA buffer and I have a small budget for detailing tools, polishes and waxes.

My questions are:
Should someone like me with zero experience attempt to use these buffers or am I likely to do more damage than good?
Is it possible to make a difference in this old paint if I stick to elbow grease?
What is a good way to fill in the chips in the paint and get rid of rust in the chips?
Should I take care of the chips first and then polish or the other way around?
How can I deal with the black overspray? It has been on the paint for years and I can`t even get it off with my finger nail.
If I can use a buffer, what pads/polishes/waxes should I buy? I don`t mind spending more for quality as I only have one vehicle to do.
If I do end up polishing the 20 year old paint, will I have removed so much of finish that the paint won`t last long after that?

Many thanks!

1. Yes, you can and you should, it`s easy. And no, not likely to damage anything.
2. Yes, it`s possible to make a difference. A machine buffer will help immensely.
3. Dr. Colorchip is a good option/product to fill in the chips.
4. Yes, take care of the chips first. Wait a few days for the paint to cure, and then polish. Otherwise, you`ll be dealing with digging out polish from the chip pits.
5. It`s suggested to chemically, and mechanically decontaminate the paint. A clay bar, Iron-X, and possibly Tarminator or Tar-X is all you`ll need to do this. Check out youtube videos from Autogeek...there`s step by step videos showing the process and products.
6. A Porter Cable 7424x or Griot`s Garage 6 inch polisher will be perfect. With Toyota white single stage paint, suggest microfiber pads. Meguiar`s MF pads are my personal favorite. Make sure to buy at least 6-8 pads for a whole car, in one shot. If the paint is really gummed up with oxidation, the pads will go quicker...so maybe 10-12 pads? You can use less pads, but you`ll need to clean them on the fly, and/or polish the paint over the course of a couple of days, so the pads can dry out after cleaning. For heavily oxidized Toyota white single stage paint, a modern compound such as Griot`s Garage Fast Correcting Cream, Meguiar`s D300, or Menzerna FG400 is likely all you`ll need. A sealant will last longer than a wax - check out Collinite 845, or Finish Kare 1000p for good value.
7. No, you`ll most likely be removing mostly oxidation. If you`ve never polished the paint, don`t worry about removing too much...it`s quite likely you`ve got plenty to work with.

Best of luck!

[Lonnie]

I must concur with etnops` suggestions above. Don`t "cheap it" and buy a $35.00 buffer from a Walmart or hardware store. Get either of the two dual-action (DA) orbital buffers mentioned and spend the big bucks. You`ll be glad you did and they should last a long time for a detailing hobbyist or weekend warrior who uses them on occasion. If you want to step up from that, consider a 15MM long-throw Griot`s Garage BOSS polisher or Rupe`s Bigfoot 15MKII. Yes, they are a lot more money, BUT you can get professional results in less time and they are designed for heavy-duty, daily use, so they should last a long time, as well.
If you do get a Porter-Cable DA orbital buffer, also get a 4" backing plate, and some 4" pads instead of the 5" (or 5-/2") that may come in a kit package you buy from any of the on-line detailing supply vendors. They just work better for the 8MM throw the DA has and its easier to control for first-time users, PLUS they get into areas easier than larger diameter pads. The down-side is that it will take (much) longer time-wise to buff out a vehicle. Make sure you get an ample quantity (number) of 4" pads (suggest a minimum quantity of (4), (6) is better), as you will find yourself cleaning them quite often, especially on oxidized single-stage paint. Stopping to clean a pad and then put it back on the buffer because you only have one or two pads is a REAL time-killer. I would suggest getting the Hydro-Tech Foam Pads as these are very efficient for compound correcting and final polishing, but they tend to not last long (some refer to them as hydro-shreds). Plus you only have three foam types/colors to keep track of and purchase.
As far as putting on a last-step product (LSP) for protection and gloss of your white paint, either the Collinite 845 or Finish-Kare 1000P are great choices without costing a lot of money and are easy to apply and take off. I prefer 845 because it`s a wax-on-wax-off (WOWO)product, meaning you can apply it to a paint surface and you can immediately wipe it off; you do not wait for it to cure or set up. In fact, if you do, Collinite can be (very) difficult to remove! Don`t do the whole vehicle and then come back and attempt to wipe it off; do one panel or area at a time. However, If you do this on a cool day(<50°F), you may need to wait about 3-5 minutes for a panel or area that you`ve applied wax to. It has a nice carnauba glow/gloss and the water beading is insane. Makes for easy water blow-off using a leaf-blower or Metro-blower of rinse water during 2-bucket maintenance washes of your vehicle.
That said, many respected Autopians prefer FK1000P on white. It`s a hybrid wax/sealant that lasts a long time and seems impervious to bug guts splat, bird crap bombs, and dirt just washes off with ease. I have not used it, BUT it is on my list of must-haves/need-to-try of waxes to buy since it does come so highly recommended.
Either way, you cannot go wrong.

[Accumulator]

I`m a newbie to this board and to detailing in general....

Welcome to Autopia!

.. We have a Toyota SUV that`s been the grocery grabber for years. Although it is old, the driveline and interior are still in great shape. Only the original factory white and dent free exterior looks shabby because of the oxidized white paint, some black overspray it picked up at the high school auto shop and dozens of paint chips on the nose and hood, some of which started to rust.

I have more time than $$$ right now and decided it would be a good learning experience to try bringing the exterior back to life myself...

Ah, that sounds like a great detailing project, and actually quite similar to what I had to do when I got my beater-Tahoe.

Through a guy at work, I have access to a Flex orbital and DA buffer and I have a small budget for detailing tools, polishes and waxes.

Please provide more info about which Flex you have access to. Maybe you do/don`t need to buy your own.

My questions are:

Compare my responses to the others, some of the areas of dis/agreement might be interesting.

Should someone like me with zero experience attempt to use these buffers or am I likely to do more damage than good?

IF you approach this with the right mindset and a decent knowledge-base you should do fine. I know plenty of people with zero experience who have, but the operative word there is "IF".

Is it possible to make a difference in this old paint if I stick to elbow grease?

Possible yes, but not in the practical sense. How many dozens of hours...and that`s sure no exaggeration, probably understating it...are you planning to put into that "elbow grease"? The polisher is a practical necessity if you only have a few dozen hours to spend on that aspect of this (again, that`s no exaggeration, or at least not much of one...people vastly underestimate how long this stuff can take).

What is a good way to fill in the chips in the paint and get rid of rust in the chips?

If at all possible just pay to have the hood repainted. If it`s *really* bad then that`s simply what you need to do even if it means waiting a long time while you save up the money (Autopian Xtremekustomz could tell you how to DIY a repaint if you`re interested in trying that, maybe worth considering if it`s really bad). IF repainting is not possible, then I would:

-Grind the rust out of the chips using a rotary tool ("Dremel") and tiny diamond burrs. Yeah, there`s that "need for the right mindset and knowledge-base" again
-Prime the ground chips with a rust-killer product (but something better than POR15) giving adequate consideration to topcoat adhesion. FWIW, I`d probably recommend Rust Bullet. I would not recommend a conventional primer even though you`ve ground out the rust
-Touch up with DrColorChips, but use it like a conventional touchup paint instead of following their "smear it all over" instructions. Yeah, that can take a while.
-Level the touchups with the DrColorChips solvent

But see alternative below.

Should I take care of the chips first and then polish or the other way around?

Do the chips first so the rust can`t dislodge while polishing and get stuck to your pad/towel and thus cause new marring.

ALTERNATIVE- WARNING, Autopian Heresy follows! OR...do a thorough chemical decontamination. Hand-compound the rusty chips until they`re not so bad and *any* loose rust is removed. Then just do the rest of the compounding/polishing (note that is gonna be a two-step process no matter what) giving consideration to product residue getting trapped in the chips. Then apply your Last Step Product ("LSP", i.e., wax/etc.), again giving consideration to product residue getting stuck in the chips. Yeah...this will leave slightly surface-rusted paintchips. But that`s not necessarily a problem; I haven`t touched up the ones on my Tahoe and they`re still OK after years of use (including winter); I left some chips like that on my jaguar for *decades* without any problems (my painter finally touched them up because he couldn`t stand seeing them any more).

How can I deal with the black overspray? It has been on the paint for years and I can`t even get it off with my finger nail.

See if the Chemical Decontamination helps any. Otherwise see about Overspray Clay. And the compounding should help too.

If I can use a buffer, what pads/polishes/waxes should I buy? I don`t mind spending more for quality as I only have one vehicle to do.

I`ll let others handle the "which pads?" as I`m out-of-date there. For the Compound I`d use/recommend Meguiar`s M101 and for the Polish HD Polish. OR the Griot`s equivalents (IIRC they`re called Fast Correction Cream and Finishing [something]).

If I do end up polishing the 20 year old paint, will I have removed so much of finish that the paint won`t last long after that?

Well, you won`t be doing it any favors But just take it easy and settle for "significantly better" rather than aiming for perfection (and that`s likely how it`ll turn out anyhow after you`ve spent a few of those hours on the first panel).

I don`t know whether your vehicle is one of the rare ones with Single Stage paint or whether it has Basecoat/Clearcoat paint. Find out before you start. "How do I do that?"...heh heh, there`s a good way to test your knowledge-base and mindset Sorry, couldn`t resist....

[Accumulator]

I...many respected Autopians prefer FK1000P on white. It`s a hybrid wax/sealant that lasts a long time and seems impervious to bug guts splat, bird crap bombs, and dirt just washes off with ease.

THAT. Just wax with that stuff. Only thing I`d even consider and yeah it looks *GREAT* on white.

Sorry, forgot to include that in my previous post

[e21pilot]

Thanks for all the replies. I feel empowered to do this.

I did speak to the Toyota dealer today and based on my VIN number, they confirmed that my 1996 indeed has single-stage white paint. I had no idea that cars were still painted this way. It makes me wonder if that is the reason the paint is so oxidized?

Knowing that it is single stage and that I am not working with a clear coat, does that change the polishing products or the choice of pads or even the sealant vs wax recommendations above?

[e21pilot]

I was speaking to one of the web retailers mentioned above about pads an polishers today and they we suggesting in addition to the Flex XC 3401 VRG DA that I have access to, I might also consider a smaller polisher for tight areas. There have a Flex PE8 kit that looks to have pad sizes from 3" down to 1" which seems like an ideal solution for tight areas, however it is a rotary only polisher. Given my inexperience, should I stay away from something like this? There are other 3" DA polishers available from other vendors for less $$$.

Also, one taking a closer look at the truck today, there are black painted, rubber and plastic areas around the side windows that have also oxidized and are looking more grey than black these days. What can be done to remove the oxidation from these areas?

[Accumulator]

e21pilot- IME (high-quality) SS, which I personally simply *LOVE* doesn`t really oxidize all that much more readily than basecoat/clearcoat, but people neglect it to the point that the oxidation is more of an issue. Properly maintained, it oughta be just fine.

SS white is generally quite hard (which, again, I like), so don`t underestimate what you`ll need to use/do to correct it.

Also, white is incredibly hard to color-match, so be realistic about your touchup/etc. expectations.

I`d still use FK1000P on it, without *ANY* question. Period.

I take a somewhat uncoventional approach to faded exterior plastics, which has always worked *for me* but might not work for others. I first try cleaning it with Griot`s Rubber Prep (freakin` miracle product that you oughta have anyhow). IF that doesn`t work I try cleaning it with Klasse All-In-One (another product I believe most everybody oughta have on the shelf). IF that doesn`t work, I try gently abrading it with a compound that doesn`t stain plastics (I use Hi-Temp 357 and/but I wipe it off before it flashes/dries). Usually do the Griot`s Rubber Prep as a final step no matter what I use, then I seal with something like Ultimas Tire & Trim Guard Plus or Klasse Sealant Glaze or Collinite 845 (buff the latter two off before they flash/dry). Maintain with a spray wax or ValuGard Fast Finish after each wash (only takes a moment).

The hard plastic areas are easy- just treat `em like paint but be gentle and settle for "better" rather than going for perfection (notice how that keeps coming up? ).

The Flex 3401 is good to go (I have one). I *DO NOT* recommend you use a rotary, even for the tight spots (not hating on them, I have two). IME the cheap 3" Dual Action/Random Orbitals are only OK if you`re talking the pneumatic ones or the pricey ones. I was utterly disappointed with the mid-range ones (hate to mention the vendor..).

Compare that approach to what others suggest, but FWIW I *NEVER* use a dressing on such stuff as it never lasts and is prone to running/staining surrounding areas when it rains.