Need advice for a basic GG6 setup: 2014 MB E350

[imported_Cardaddy]

You mentioned the Megs MF cutting pads, yes? I`d say go with Megs D-300 compound on that hard MB paint. It`ll correct like crazy, and doesn`t take 8, 10 or more passes to do so. The trick though with MF pads is KEEP THEM CLEAN. Do a section, grab your air hose (with the blowing attachment) and blow outside in, inside out. Do that clockwise, then counter-clockwise. It`ll clean the pad, cool the pad, and stand the fibers back up.

I don`t really like working with MF pads without air. Some do, I`m just not one of them.

Megs D300 is pretty awesome stuff.... easily my go-to from Megs these last 3 years. (Whether that be MF or foam pads.) Also they have D-302 polish that`s stupid easy to work with, along with D301 Finishing Wax. The thing with D301 is it`s a finishing product that adds a bit of protection. You might... or might not want that. (Depending on what LSP you plan on using.)

One neat way to use the MF pads is buy the Meguiar`s Microfiber Correction Kit that comes with 2 cutting and 2 finishing pads, a bottle of D300 and D301, a DEDICATED 5" backing plate that is designed to work with the Meguiar`s pads (it`s a Velcro thing) and they even throw in a fancy lil` Meguiar`s detailing apron. I liked it so much the first time I found it I bought TWO kits. LOL

Actually... if your Dad likes his local coin wash, (and doesn`t use the stupid brush) it`s certainly an option.

Of course that is AFTER the car has been corrected, and you have a nice LSP on it. Chances are the coin wash has a decent water filter (rather than the well water down your way that is so rough with calcium and lime).

Were he to want to go the rinseless route, that`ll take distilled water OR if he`s got a dehumidifier he can use that water. It`ll also take a couple dozen GOOD microfiber towels. I`d say at least 360, 400 or 500 gsm towels. Get one of those 51oz pump sprayers and put your rinseless mix in that. Then put 2~3 gallons in a bucket with a grit guard, THEN put at least a dozen towels in that mixture. Start at the top, and with LIGHTLY moving the towels across the surface. I`m so OCD I don`t even go in circles, straight lines only, back to front, or front to back. One towel goes down and back on one side then turn it over and down and back on the other. (Half a towel). I`ll use 2~3 towels for the hood, 2~3 for the roof, 3~4 for each side, 1 for the trunk, 1 for the front, another for the rear bumper(s). You can use the back of a towel to do the glass, mirrors, grills, lights, etc. but not the paint.

The problem there however is you have to dry with something. That means rubbing the surface for most folks. If I have to dry something I`ll just lay the drying towel of choice on the surface and lightly pat and rub the *back* of the towel, rather than dragging the towel all over the paint.

OTOH.... if the paint has been corrected and a coating applied, you can dry it with a leaf blower REALLY easily. Blowers can be had for well under $90 out the door. I`d look more at the max CFM rather than the max air speed. Of course the max speed WITH the max CFM is your best pick. I can dry a crew cab short bed with a blower in minutes compared to half an hour with towels.

Being as you said you`re taking him the buckets and grit guards that`s a good start. Might could throw in a $179 electric pressure washer (were it not for well water) and a foam cannon and he`d be having fun in a hurry. Speaking of foam..... Megs Hyperwash is AWESOME in a foam cannon. I use that, Mr. Pink, Honeydew, and sometimes DG 901 exclusively. For a coated vehicle that`s just dusty from driving, a quick spray to get the dust, a foaming to pull the dirt, another spray, then a sheeting rinse and you can get away without ever putting a mitt to paint. When it`s a bit more dirty.... nothing that black paint is gonna like better than Merino mitt, or say a Wookie`s Fist to keep the swirls at bay. (I don`t know how I ever got by without those little sheep giving their lives for us car nuts.) :p

Yup... you never remember just how much OCD`ness is involved in this hobby.

[Accumulator]

bltoe12345- There are a lot of topics here, from washing to correction...some general thoughts follow, I can probably be more specific if you get back with specifics.

Note that I got my late father into detailing when he was in his 70s and I`ll be basing my response in part upon how that went. IMO you`r absolutely correct in that it`s important to *NOT* make this so overwhelming/complicated/difficult that he doesn`t want to stick with it.

I can`t help much with WW as the closest I come to that is using Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice, and I only use that after thoroughly cleaning the car via water-centric means first. IF he does the coin-op first that might be a viable approach *IF* you can get him to use lots of MFs and *NOT* try to speed up the process or try to make it more "efficient" (scare-quotes intentional ) than it is when done properly. Hoping his Mil background helps here...You might research the Garry Dean Wash Method, which I think would be good, but Garry might come across such that your father won`t relate to him very well...so *you* learn it and then explain to dad.

On the polisher/products and LSP (and this is just IMO/IME)..I`d absolutely:

-Get the Boss15 instead of the GG6 (which I have/use/like for what it is). Using the GG6 wil frustrate him IMO
-Get NON-dimishing abrasive products (e.g., the Meg`s Ultimate Compound) to take abrasive breakdown/proper work-time out of the equation. Thus no Menzerna. I`m pretty sure Menzerna`s stuff would be frustrating for your dad
-Expect to need something like the UC and not just the HD Polish
-Forget about Autopian appearance standards, which leads me to...
-Use something like FK1000P that`s easy enough to use, lasts for ages, protects incredibly well against birds/etc., sheds dirt *great* during the wash (or even in rain), and "looks shiny" to normal people

And explain to him how you need to keep the clear thick, so "polishing out the scratches all the time" should not be in the cards.

Eh, there`e probably more I oughta be posting but I have stuff going on here and am distracted

[Raymoche]

Lots of info on this thread, and I couldnt browse through all of them. Just check if your car uses ceramiclear clear coat. If it does, I wouldnt do much pass a light polish on it to maintain the harder shell.

Personally I usually advise against trying more than a light polish if you are inexperience in paint correction (which I am not sure of), and like some recommended, just pay a pro to set up the canvas and get a coating!), then just maintain it with great technique/products.

maybe get a water filtration system
a bucket or 2 (Gritguard optional since there is lots of debate about this)
Good soap quality soap of your choice, or ONR...
good quality cloth/wash media (microfiber, wash mits, glass, all purpose, a few soft brushes...etc)
a GREAT wheel cleaner like the Sonax Full effect or Plus to be used once or twice a year the dust is real on these cars
All purpose/degreaser (meguiars stuff is fine here)
Some type of sealant.. I prefer wolfgang on non coated cars. you can also grab a wax if you like...
A blow dryer if you can...
a shop vac
and that should cover most of the maintence stuff and give you some options for spills or splatters...

You can check what clear coat you have by looking at the paint code, if it starts with a C then it has it, if it doesn`t its same as any other car (for the most part).

Ceramiclear is approx 0.2 mils thick on the top surface of the clear coat, the actual clear coat underneath is softer... you may have this odd moment when you are polishing out the ceramiclear, and you break through it and suddenly you get lesser results because it may act differently. you can compound out 0.2 mil in no time chasing some swirls with improper technique.

[imported_Cardaddy]

Lots of info on this thread, and I couldnt browse through all of them. Just check if your car uses ceramiclear clear coat. If it does, I wouldnt do much pass a light polish on it to maintain the harder shell.

Personally I usually advise against trying more than a light polish if you are inexperience in paint correction (which I am not sure of), and like some recommended, just pay a pro to set up the canvas and get a coating!), then just maintain it with great technique/products.

maybe get a water filtration system a bucket or 2 (Gritguard optional since there is lots of debate about this)
Good soap quality soap of your choice, or ONR... good quality cloth/wash media (microfiber, wash mits, glass, all purpose, a few soft brushes...etc)
a GREAT wheel cleaner like the Sonax Full effect or Plus to be used once or twice a year the dust is real on these cars
All purpose/degreaser (meguiars stuff is fine here)
Some type of sealant.. I prefer wolfgang on non coated cars. you can also grab a wax if you like...
A blow dryer if you can... a shop vac and that should cover most of the maintence stuff and give you some options for spills or splatters...

You can check what clear coat you have by looking at the paint code, if it starts with a C then it has it, if it doesn`t its same as any other car (for the most part).

Ceramiclear is approx 0.2 mils thick on the top surface of the clear coat, the actual clear coat underneath is softer... you may have this odd moment when you are polishing out the ceramiclear, and you break through it and suddenly you get lesser results because it may act differently. you can compound out 0.2 mil in no time chasing some swirls with improper technique.

While I totally agree with the jist of your message, thought I might touch on a couple of points. (Highlighted in red above)

Not sure if you have a multi-layer, multi-thousand dollar film thickness gauge, but I`m betting not. What I`m thinking is.... you`re referring to a thread on Autogeek from 2013, as well as a conversation that Mike Philips had with Dr. Ghodoussi at Optimum. Right?

Actually..... ceramiclear isn`t a 2-layer clear, not at all. It just happens to be formulated to where something happens as it`s curing. This is what Dr. G was referring to in the below quote.

From Dr. Ghodoussi...
After the "cerami"clear top coat is sprayed, the nano particles of Fumed Silica (SiO2), which are synthetically engineered, migrate to the top 0.2 mils of the clear coat as it is curing.

If you remove this potion of the clear layer of paint, the paint under it will be much softer and will not polish out or react the same way the nano particle portion did or would.

So while the clear is shot as a single layer, the way the silica dries it migrates to the top, thus forming that `hard` crust over the softer clear below.

Not that it *can`t* be polished, just that it`s CERTAINLY NOT something someone that hasn`t had a lot of experience with it would want to do. That is not unless they are prepared to end up with a $8,000~$10,000 invoice for a paint job handed to them.


But that`s not what confused me about your post.

Perhaps I`ve fallen asleep, was aboard a Time Ship, and it`s the 80`s again.

Where exactly is "debate" on Grit Guards and them not being necessary? I can assure you, washing without them (most tend to use TWO in a single bucket to amplify the overall design) isn`t something one would want to do.

Do they tend to float?
YUP.
Can you fix that?
YUP.
Are 2 better than one?
YOU BETCHA!

Fixing the `floating` problem is simple. Drill a small hole in each of the lower fins about 3/16" and insert a pointed fishing weight and hot glue it in place. Then to put 2 in a bucket, drill a couple more smaller holes in the fins and just zip tie the upper one to the bottom one, with the fins turned at 45° to the one below/above it. You can try as best you can to get the trash in the bottom to swirl up into your wash media with this setup and it`ll not happen.

Well.... sure.... if you are TRYING to get mud in your wash media you can, but you shouldn`t be trying to, AND you shouldn`t be laying your mitt(s) in the bottom of the bucket(s) anyhow. Simply slosh, rinse, slosh rinse, hang on the side of the bucket(s).

And as one thread I remember from years ago, one guy tried to say the Grit Guards were not necessary, but he was still rinsing the mitt in the rinse bucket (getting it wet) then rinsing and squeezing it out OUTSIDE of the bucket.

I actually do pretty much the same thing, just that I use 2 grit guards in both my soap as well as my rinse bucket(s). I`ll hit the rinse bucket with my mitt(s), slosh them around just a bit, then wring it out, outside the bucket.

I can ASSURE YOU, that if you do this method.... your soap is so clean you can put a lid on it and use it for your next wash. Then for the third wash you don`t need `wheel soap`, as you just dump your `clean` soap into your wheel bucket.

Not that we`ve not all seen this video..... but it does go to show just how well Grit Guards work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4RGoQ6c50w

[Accumulator]

IME, taking off too much clear will often (?usually?) result in what`s left being softer. The overthinned (by others) clear on my `93 Audi is virtually BMW Jet Black-soft in many areas while other areas that still have plenty of clear remain typically Audi-hard.

Something to ponder for this thread- what are the *REAL* chances that this Benz is gonna stay marring-free? We`re not talking about an Autopian here. The thought "maybe add some Black Hole to the regimen" came to mind after I thought about it for a while. My father was the kind of guy who *really* worked at doing things right, but even with me helping/advising him, his vehicles always ended up with marring that would`ve driven me nuts.

What does bltoe12345`s father *enjoy*, or at least not mind, doing with regard to this stuff? What`re the realistic expectations when it comes to what he`ll do and how he`ll do it? Lots of (IMO utterly critical) subjective stuff to consider and this particular subject might be very different from most of us here.

[Raymoche]

Yes Accumulator, I did find the information from Autogeek, and I did not intend to make it sound like there is 2 layers of different clear, but meant to say the hardness is on the surface of 0.2mil.

No need to post a wall of text, I have about 8 grit guards and only 2 buckets, and I have 2 wash boards, just in case one gets lost.. I have came across random threads there people just say the grit guard is a waste of money, which I disagree with, but won`t argue with someone that chooses not to use them.

I only say that its optional because there are people out there that feels like its not needed. I distinctly recall reading someone saying that if you aren`t stirring your water, it will be fine. But hey, who knows. I like to stir my water.

Again, no need to post a wall of text just because I said there are debates about it. To say the least, here is one thread about someone/company saying you dont need even buckets... 0 bucket wash this is the most recent one I saw.

Edit: I also read about that guy that rinses his mitts outside of the bucket.. so thats another one that we both are aware of.

I generally don`t like to tell people that they NEED something, but prefer to say you might want to get it for reason a.b.c etc.

Edit Edit: here is another one Does anyone here (besides me) not use grit guards?

is it this guy you`re talking about?? Grit guard ... who needs em

how about a discussion on reddit? https://www.reddit.com/r/AutoDetaili...lly_necessary/

So yeah I am not just saying there are debates about this topic without any basis.

[Accumulator]

Heh heh..."wall of text"...that`d be me I suppose

But seriously, I never saw the Autogeek article, think I learned about "the hard part is the top portion" from Ron K, after I`d discovered it the hard way on that Audi.

And just FWIW, I don`t get the criticisms of the Grit Guards. If somebody believes they offer a benefit then why argue it? Even if it`s just a placebo effect (which I doubt) I can`t see any reason to knock somebody using them.

[Raymoche]

Yeah, so I have a very nifty way to keep 2 grit guards in place, no tools required, you can order some weather stripping material from mcmaster and just slip it in place. I like my gritguards so much I dont want to put holes in them. LOL

[Accumulator]

I`ll probably get some Grit Guards/Washboards one of these days...we`ll see how they fit (some of my buckets aren`t the usual straight-wall ones) and what I have to do to keep `em in place. Wonder if *I* will hesitate to drill `em too.

[bltoe12345]

First, thank you to all who took the time to respond. I`m blown away by all the detailed (no pun intended) help and knowledge. Second, I`ve been swamped with finals and apologize for the delay.

imported_Cardaddy,

So much great info in your posts. Very much appreciated!


Accumulator,

-Get the Boss15 instead of the GG6 (which I have/use/like for what it is). Using the GG6 will frustrate him IMO

Appreciate the focused suggestions. It definitely shows you`ve been down this road personally. On the G15 suggestion, do you think this will make a big difference for him? I checked the price of the G15 and it`s ~double. Might be doable but the price range of the GG6 is a lot easier to swallow.



After reading up some more on the CeramiClear I`m nervous to try an aggressive product. Would I be safe in just using HD polish to try to get out the majority of the swirls? I have a bottle of UC but I have zero experience with this type of clear coat and you folks have made me a touch gun-shy.

[Accumulator]

On the G15 suggestion, do you think this will make a big difference for him? I checked the price of the G15 and it`s ~double. Might be doable but the price range of the GG6 is a lot easier to swallow.

Yeah, while it`s easy for me to spend your money I really *DO* think that it`s worth the higher price. SO many newbies find correction to be frustrating and/or RO/DA polishers to be unpleasant to use! Based on how my father was about this stuff, I`ll stick to my Boss15 recommendation.

After reading up some more on the CeramiClear I`m nervous to try an aggressive product. Would I be safe in just using HD polish to try to get out the majority of the swirls? I have a bottle of UC but I have zero experience with this type of clear coat and you folks have made me a touch gun-shy.

Glad to hear you`re gonna approach correction cautiously. Yeah, better to live with some flaws than [mess] up the paintjob.

The HD Polish is just gonna be *SO* mild though...I think you`ll need to (rarely, carefully, conservatively) use something more potent.

That`s why I`m thinking "PB Black Hole". Let that stuff fill some of the milder flaws, oughta be sufficient for a non-Autopian and your dad will probably just think of it as a two-step wax process. Ronkh says that the PB BH and FK1000P are compatible, so that`s what I`d be considering.

[Accumulator]

Oh, and I`m glad to hear you`re prioritizing your Finals Hope they go well.

[Accumulator taught at the local U]

[screamng]

You may want to check this thread out.

How to use Griot`s Garage to detail your car - A detail job Richard Griot would be proud of!

I would also consider the boss pads on the 5" backing plate and possibly the Griot`s creams. Folks have been liking them.

Ultimate Compound will also work as it is a really good compound.

I have been using GG for a number of years on my cars. I now have two MB`s (2010 C & 2012 GLK both black) utilize their wash (~ every 2 weeks +/-), clay, Ultimate Compound (~ once a year) followed with the Poly Wax (~every 3-4 Months). Been super simple and a very nice finish that I`m proud of. I use the GG6 with the 5" backing plate but have not tried their new Boss or creams, something I would like to try sometime in the future. There might be other stuff that is better out there, however Griots is less than an hour down the road from me, and it is easy and I like the results.

[bltoe12345]

Yeah, while it`s easy for me to spend your money I really *DO* think that it`s worth the higher price. SO many newbies find correction to be frustrating and/or RO/DA polishers to be unpleasant to use! Based on how my father was about this stuff, I`ll stick to my Boss15 recommendation.

After reading up some more on the G15 I think you are spot on. The reduced vibration and increased comfort are worth the extra $100 in the long run.

The HD Polish is just gonna be *SO* mild though...I think you`ll need to (rarely, carefully, conservatively) use something more potent.

That`s why I`m thinking "PB Black Hole". Let that stuff fill some of the milder flaws, oughta be sufficient for a non-Autopian and your dad will probably just think of it as a two-step wax process. Ronkh says that the PB BH and FK1000P are compatible, so that`s what I`d be considering.

So would the PB Black Hole be the more potent product you mentioned above? Or would that be something like meg`s UC? How often would the PB Black Hole be used...every time?

I also think your wax recommendation is perfect especially being in the hot FL sun.

As of right now I am leaning towards:
Boss G15 (comes w/ backing plate, correct?)
Buff and Shine 5.5" pads (3 Orange, 4 Green, 2 Blue, 3 Black...good enough to start?)
HD Polish
PB Black Hole
FK1000P

Already picked up a bunch of quality MF towels. Am I missing anything obvious?

I have been using GG for a number of years on my cars. I now have two MB`s (2010 C & 2012 GLK both black) utilize their wash (~ every 2 weeks +/-), clay, Ultimate Compound (~ once a year) followed with the Poly Wax (~every 3-4 Months). Been super simple and a very nice finish that I`m proud of. I use the GG6 with the 5" backing plate but have not tried their new Boss or creams, something I would like to try sometime in the future. There might be other stuff that is better out there, however Griots is less than an hour down the road from me, and it is easy and I like the results.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the MB`s. I`m hoping to get dad to that kind of regimen.

[imported_Cardaddy]

bltoe12345.... One thing I forgot to mention earlier (was thinking it, just forgot) is when talking about mils that`s a huge measurement versus microns when you`re referring to paint. PTG`s (Paint Thickness Gauges) generally will measure film thickness in microns, and ".2 mils" comes out to just over 5 microns. That`s thin, but it`s not more than a polish would remove if one isn`t looking to be aggressive. It *IS* however easy to remove 5 microns if one is trying to do a 100% correction *AND ESPECIALLY* on areas like raised body lines, style lines, rough looking areas with aggressive pad/compound combinations etc.

FWIW, I own vehicles with paint measurements running from the upper 60 micron range to the 160 micron range. The two newest, a 16 Silverado LTZ 4x4 is lucky to have 100 microns on it. Where the 2 week old Cruze Hatchback in metallic blue has on average 125 microns, and in places almost 50 mics more paint on it than the Silverado! Of course these two are new, and waterborne paint systems. My son`s 4Runner is a 98, in silver/gray metallic, has been buffed a number of times and still has 127-ish in even the thinnest spots. Just don`t get me started though on the Infiniti that`s running in the 60`s and the darned Silverado (that hasn`t been buffed) and is in the 80`s~90`s for the most part.

Said all that to say this.....
It`s easily possible to get paint looking great and just pull a couple microns off. But when the safety factor is ONLY 5 of them... I`d be looking at finding a PTG, (or someone that has one) and doing a sympathetic correction/polish with not just good, but GREAT lighting, and a light hand along the way. Once done, coat that puppy, coat it twice if possible. It`ll be much easier in the long run to maintain, (and you can top a coating with whatever floats your boat for the most part).

(Hope I don`t get flogged for that statement... purists and all....) LOL

But seriously, I`ve seen lots of coatings topped with anything from paste wax, to liquid, to WOWO and WOWA sealants, and even spray and rinse like Hydro2. This hobby isn`t supposed to BE the stress, it`s supposed to RELIEVE the stress.