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Liquid Glass?


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#1 metroplex

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:06 AM

Why is 12% of Liquid Glass Finish/Polish sand?

Inert Filler (Amorphous Silica, aka Amorphous Silicon Dioxide), CAS # 7631-86-9, Chemical Formula, SiO2

My dad used to use Rain Dance paste wax all the time and it tore off almost all of the paint from my T-bird. Turns out 5% of the paste wax was the SAME sand as Liquid Glass (same CAS #, etc). However the MSDS for Rain Dance (Armor All) didn't try to hype it up, they just called it sand. I suspect the actual silica content is in the form of a gel (Amorphous).

#2 DETAILKING

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:07 AM

EOM

#3 metroplex

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:11 AM

I see.

The polyamino acetate polymer is also nothing more than silicone oil (12%) I couldn't find details on the last two CAS #s:
30399-84-9 and 68155-20-4, its only 3% of the content.

#4 ALAN81

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:34 AM

but I used liquid glass and it never scrached the paint of my car.Why is that?

#5 metroplex

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:43 AM

Because it is a fine silica gel. However, you can use fine sandpaper and not see any scratches on a smooth surface. It doesn't mean it didn't take off some of the material.

My main concern is from the silica gel removing the clearcoat faster than kaolin which is found in most other products (3M IHG, Meguiarss #20 and Gold Class).

Its SiO2 vs. China Clay (very fine quantities).

#6 ALAN81

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 10:46 AM

Around here Liquid Glass goes for 17.99 that's a a lot of money for a product that scratches your car, and ruins your clearcoat

#7 TortoiseAWD

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 11:32 AM

Originally posted by ALAN81
Around here Liquid Glass goes for 17.99 that's a a lot of money for a product that scratches your car, and ruins your clearcoat

Quite a big jump from "contains abrasives" to "ruins your clearcoat" . . . I used LG (before I switched to Zaino) with good results, and no apparent damage to my finish. We are talking about LG sealant, and not the prep polish, correct? I doubt that a sealant that is applied by hand, allowed to haze, and buffed off will remove any significant amount of clear coat, even if it does contain a mild abrasive as a cleaner.

Oh, and just another data point . . . according to this page, china clay is over 40% SiO2.

Tort
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#8 DETAILKING

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 12:27 PM

It's not gonna remove your clear coat and damage it with one application. But use it again and again over time and you will marr it up pretty bad. Also, you can't layer that product so multiple coats are pointless unless you are planning to reapply. in my opinion its a product best suited for older paint that needs some sprucing up. It's easy to use and durable.....not a bad product, but has its uses. I wouldn't use it on newer paint or a new car............

#9 4DSC

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 11:34 PM

Oh no, now I'm confused. There seems to be two camps of thinking with LG. Some people think LG contains abrasives and cleaners, while other people do not think it has these.

I tend to side with the non-abrasive/cleaning perception, partially because I'm biased that way (hey I'm honest :D), but also because I've seen lots of info suggesting that it isn't abrasive.

LG also has a lot of email and product info saying there aren't abrasives and "contains no cleaning agents" (according to my email), and they're always talking about layering..... Shouldn't we just believe them then? Their stance seems fairly clear-cut. :nixweiss


DK: almost forgot, did you do your propeller test on LG?
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#10 Hypersion

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Posted 22 May 2002 - 11:48 PM

Since glass is made of sand; that explains the name "liquid glass"

#11 Guess My Name

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 05:23 AM

Which liquid glass product?
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#12 OpticalBrad

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 05:44 AM

As my user name implies, I work in the Optical industry (eyeglasses, etc.). I used to work at a lens manufacturer and worked a bit with the scratch coatings that are applied to the lenses. These are acrylic or silicone based coatings which bond directly with the surface of the plastic resin or polycarbonate lenses. A certain amount of light scratching or swirling assists in the bonding process. The swirls in the lens are filled in and this linkage improves the adhesion of the coating. Some lenses are then coated with an anti-reflective coating, requiring that they be chemically etched first.

Now, I'm a newbie here, but I wonder if some of the same ideas apply. Perhaps a slightly rough surface is required for the polymer sealants to adhere to the paint. This would explain the presence of abrasives and stronger solvents in the sealants.

Whadya think? Anyone from these manufacturers here?

#13 TortoiseAWD

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 06:13 AM

Guess: I believe we're discussing the LG sealant (Final Polish) . . .


Just to add to the general confusion, here's a quote from the FAQ at the Liquid Glass website:

Q. Is Liquid Glass Polish/Finish safe for use on new car finishes with clear coat paint?

A. Yes. Liquid Glass Polish/Finish contains no abrasives or cleaners, and is perfectly safe for all paint finishes including clear coat. In fact, many new and used car dealers coat their vehicles with Liquid Glass Polish/Finish before they are placed on the showroom floor.

Liquid Glass was my "sealant of choice" back in the late 90's when I had my Talon . . . I used it regularly on that finish, and never experienced any marring. LG might not be my first choice for a sealant these days, but personal experience tells me that repeated use does not cause marring, and the product does produce a good shine that is fairly durable.

I, for one, wouldn't hesitate to recommend LG for someone that didn't want to get into "boutique" products like Z, BF, or Klasse.

Tort
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#14 DETAILKING

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 08:42 AM

about LF is the can. This is an old can of LG....you can clearly see it contains abrasives. Over the years the can was changed to "contains micropic polishing agents", and now it says....."contains cleaning agents." Make your own conclusions.........

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#15 TortoiseAWD

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 10:37 AM

The LG website has some contact info on it (e-mail addy/phone); when I find some time I'll fire off a question to see if they'll share any info and address the concerns that have been raised . . .

Tort
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. — Carl Sagan

#16 MikeLS

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 05:00 PM

I've got a fairly recent can of LG and it states it contains "mild inert cleaning agents" (whatever that is??) among other stuff. Honestly, I don't think it's abrasive enough to do any long term harm, and it's certainly less abrasive/harsh than a cleaner/wax like Meguiar's or NuFinish, because LG will not clean up a surface like the other cleaner waxes/polishes out there. So, IMO LG is VERY mild in terms of cleaning action, and like Tort, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on other cars for a decent quality wax job...

:wavey

#17 Dude

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Posted 23 May 2002 - 09:29 PM

"The only thing that changed about LF is the can. This is an old can of LG....you can clearly see it contains abrasives. Over the years the can was changed to "contains micropic polishing agents", and now it says....."contains cleaning agents." Make your own conclusions......... "

How do you know? Have you performed a chemical analysis on both old and new Liquid Glass?

Sealant manufacturers change their formulations all the time, right? Sal does this, doesn't he? How can you say that Liquid Glass didn't do the same?
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#18 metroplex

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Posted 24 May 2002 - 04:30 AM

Oh, and just another data point . . . according to this page, china clay is over 40% SiO2.


Amorphous silica is 100% SiO2.
:)

The chemical formula for Kaolin is: Al2Si2O5(OH)4

But the fact of the matter is 98-100% SiO2 is glass/sand.

Liquid Glass calls the amorphous silica in their LG 100 Finish/Polish "inert filler" so its the same thing.

BTW

I got their latest MSDS straight from the manufacturer. 12% by volume amorphous silica, aka, amorphous silicon dioxide, aka silicic acid, aka sand.

I understand that its a VERY fine powder that won't work like 10 grain sandpaper but more like very very very fine sandpaper.

What I don't understand is the fact that they state it does not contain any abrasives. How else are you going to get that glass-like finish w/o using abrasives?

#19 metroplex

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Posted 24 May 2002 - 05:10 AM

I'm still waiting on Reed-Union to send me the MSDS for NuFinish.




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