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How to fix oxidation?


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#1 Pontman43

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 10:24 PM

I was wondering how you guys fix oxidation? My brother's 92 black accord has the start of slight oxidation, even though it is waxed once everyother month.
Thanks
1997 Trans Am with a one of a kind paint job. :xyxthumbs
Owner of Flawless Detailing & Supplies Antioch, CA
Skye Northrop :usa

#2 ajbarnes

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 11:46 PM

I was wondering how you guys fix oxidation? My brother's 92 black accord has the start of slight oxidation, even though it is waxed once everyother month.
Thanks


What has worked best for me for slight oxidation is Klasse AIO with a PC and a orange pad on speed 5. Without a PC, Klasse works pretty well with a MF sponge pad or a regular MF towel.
"If you want to be rich - work. If you want to be clever - study. But if you want to be happy - do what you really like"

#3 WaxIt

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 04:41 AM

I would use PB SR2 and an orange pad- if the oxidation is getting bad you would need more bite that the AIO I would think...just my 2 cents

#4 themightytimmah

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:40 AM

I used Optimum via rotary on a moderately oxidized Miata I did and it worked out great. AIO isn't bad, but the big O is really a joy to use and easy to remove. AIO, not so much, in my experience.
Once you buff black, you never go back

#5 JustinTRW

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:42 AM

I was wondering how you guys fix oxidation? My brother's 92 black accord has the start of slight oxidation, even though it is waxed once everyother month.
Thanks


A light chemical cleaner and/or polish should do the trick.

#6 Idz21

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:54 AM

A light chemical cleaner and/or polish should do the trick.

I tried using the P21S paintwork cleanser on my oxidized '92 accord, and it worked pretty well on the hood, front fender panels, front doors and the trunk. However, on the roof and rear doors it was having a lot of trouble breaking the oxidation and/or dirt that has damaged the car over the years. I didn't have AIO at the time and could not try that on the roof and doors. The car is now waxed so once the wax starts to break down I'll try again with AIO.

The P21S cleanser was applied by hand via a terry cloth applicator sponge. The AIO will go on via a PC.


Question: I'm trying to get rid of paint oxidation as well as swirl marks. Should I:
1. Orange pad with AIO followed by Orange Pad with SSR2.5 followed by SSR1 (diff pad)?
-or-
2. Simply Orange Pad with SSR2.5 followed by SSR1 (diff pad)

#7 JustinTRW

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 09:08 AM

The P21S GEPC is very light stuff and is more likely for improving the finish on cars in good condition, so I'm not surprised it did not get rid of all the oxidation.

Never used SSR 2.5 before, but my understanding is that it's fairly aggressive. So I would probably do SSR 2.5 first (possibly with an orange pad), followed by SSR1 (with a white pad, assuming it's aggressive enough to clean up any marring left behind by 2.5).

Usually by now enough paint has been removed that the oxidation is gone, but AIO may still yield an improvement in surface gloss and smoothness. GEPC may as well. I'd use a white pad with these should you decide to try them out.

- J

#8 Pontman43

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 09:59 AM

Wow that is a lot of good info, although I have a hard time following you guys' lingo. Where do I find this stuff? And what exactly causes oxidation?
Thanks again
1997 Trans Am with a one of a kind paint job. :xyxthumbs
Owner of Flawless Detailing & Supplies Antioch, CA
Skye Northrop :usa

#9 Idz21

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 10:06 AM

Wow that is a lot of good info, although I have a hard time following you guys' lingo. Where do I find this stuff? And what exactly causes oxidation?
Thanks again

Some clarification legend:

SSR2.5 = Poorboys Polish: Abbrasivness level of 2.5 (Next to strongest. Strongest is 3)
SSR1 = Poorboys Polish: Abbrasivness level of 1 (Weakest)
AIO = Klasse All-In-One paintwork cleaner & sealer. (Has been known to be a good product to fix oxidation)
PC = PorterCable random orbital polishing device.
Orange Pad = One of a series of 6 different levels of polishing/cutting/finishing pads. An Orange is a Cutting pad (which means it's pretty harsh) and I believe it's considered level 4.
GPEC = ?

Oxidation is pretty much caused by the Sun's UV rays. As anything, that sits out in the sun for extended periods of time, a car's paint will be damaged. The clearcoat eventually breaks down, and the paint starts losing it's luster. To fix oxidation you need to shave a level of "dead" paint from the surface in order to bring it back to life. At least this is my understanding of this.


Hope this helps.


You can find most of this stuff on www.autogeek.com . There are many online retailers out there which sell all the cleaning products, and you just need to find one that suits you. AutoGeek is one of the more popular ones. It'd be nice if we could find this stuff on the shelf, but as it stands, we need to order these items online. (Well most of us)

#10 JustinTRW

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 10:47 AM

P21S GEPC = P21S Gloss Enhancing Paint Cleanser.

#11 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:37 PM

If it's a clear coat then it's not oxidation. Single stage paint oxidizes and you know this when the paint fades. Clear coats have no pigmented paint hence they don't oxidize.

What happens is they are attacked from the elements, chemicals like pollutants and/or rail dust and such. You can give clears an acid wash, like the one from ValuGard or you can clay the paint. Claying will not remove oxidation though. Many people use oxidation as a catch all phrase though.

So the 92 black accord may have overspray, sap, rail dust (unlikely) or some form of chemical contamination but not oxidation if it is clear coated.

Anthony
"The Art & Science Of Auto Detail"

#12 MCA

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 02:00 PM

As a first choice, I would recommend AIO. If you need a something available locally (your local Wal-mart or auto part store), I would recommend Meg's ColorX. Both of these products qualify as a pretty good 1-step as well.

Take a look at these 2 links as they provide nice tips and pictures of oxidation removal:

ColorX

AIO --> Unfortunately, the pictures do not show up since the forums were upgraded :confused:

Take Care,
MCA

#13 Pontman43

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 07:32 PM

If it's a clear coat then it's not oxidation. Single stage paint oxidizes and you know this when the paint fades. Clear coats have no pigmented paint hence they don't oxidize.

What happens is they are attacked from the elements, chemicals like pollutants and/or rail dust and such. You can give clears an acid wash, like the one from ValuGard or you can clay the paint. Claying will not remove oxidation though. Many people use oxidation as a catch all phrase though.

So the 92 black accord may have overspray, sap, rail dust (unlikely) or some form of chemical contamination but not oxidation if it is clear coated.

Anthony

Thanks! That is kinda what I thought. It is of course a clear coated car, but it looks like oxidation under the clear. It looks like it started with like a pin hole and spread, several of them in one area and kinda spread as one. The only thing I can think of is from my dad's work, he works at a steel mill and sometimes drives that. There is hydrocloric acid used there and that might be the cause. What if anything would fix this?
Thanks a lot!
1997 Trans Am with a one of a kind paint job. :xyxthumbs
Owner of Flawless Detailing & Supplies Antioch, CA
Skye Northrop :usa

#14 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 08:55 AM

If it is a spot that appears to grow then you have clear coat failure. It may look white or gray in color, has a cracked or veined look and it may, more likely than not "feel" as rough as it looks.

This can't be fixed by detailing methods but rather it needs a re-paint.

If the area feels rough then it is most likely some type of surface contamination. Not all surface contamination can be fixed. Since you mention hydroflouric acid, which is caustic, some of it mayhave settled on the paint and etched it. Here again it would need a re-paint. An acid wash may be your best first choice. You can go to Valugards website and look into their ABC system. I believe Automagic and PRO also offer acid washes. Make sure you follow the instructions fully.

Anthony
"The Art & Science Of Auto Detail"

#15 JustinTRW

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 06:31 PM

Anthony,
This is probably a difficult question to answer, but do you think cars that are regularly polished and clayed to "autopian" standards would benefit from one of these decontamination systems (e.g. ABC system, FK1 system, etc)? Seems like they could eliminate things clay cannot, but at the same time, my paint already seems quite clean.

- J

#16 Pontman43

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 07:48 PM

If it is a spot that appears to grow then you have clear coat failure. It may look white or gray in color, has a cracked or veined look and it may, more likely than not "feel" as rough as it looks.

This can't be fixed by detailing methods but rather it needs a re-paint.

If the area feels rough then it is most likely some type of surface contamination. Not all surface contamination can be fixed. Since you mention hydroflouric acid, which is caustic, some of it mayhave settled on the paint and etched it. Here again it would need a re-paint. An acid wash may be your best first choice. You can go to Valugards website and look into their ABC system. I believe Automagic and PRO also offer acid washes. Make sure you follow the instructions fully.

Anthony


What is the Valugards website? I tried a yahoo search and it didn't come up with anything good. Also, I will try to get pics up for you guys to look at tomorrow or asap.
Thanks again.
1997 Trans Am with a one of a kind paint job. :xyxthumbs
Owner of Flawless Detailing & Supplies Antioch, CA
Skye Northrop :usa

#17 themightytimmah

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 07:53 PM

Valuguard = www.autoint.com
Finish Kare also makes a decontamination kit, its the one I use. www.fk1usa.com
Once you buff black, you never go back

#18 Pontman43

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 09:07 PM

After watching the video at fk1usa and asking my dad about his work a little more I concluded that it was caused by iron oxide that falls on his car everday. It also looks like my only option is to get it repainted because it is already through the clear and to the paint. That kinda makes me mad, because now I know it will probably mess up his paint too. I guess he wont be taking my car to his work anymore.
1997 Trans Am with a one of a kind paint job. :xyxthumbs
Owner of Flawless Detailing & Supplies Antioch, CA
Skye Northrop :usa

#19 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 04:41 AM

Anthony,
This is probably a difficult question to answer, but do you think cars that are regularly polished and clayed to "autopian" standards would benefit from one of these decontamination systems (e.g. ABC system, FK1 system, etc)? Seems like they could eliminate things clay cannot, but at the same time, my paint already seems quite clean.

- J


Clay can remove only the protruding metal particles that might be in ones paint. These particles will then "bloom" again (this can be seen on white cars more than others and appears as tiny circular rust spots) as the clay has been unable to lift them from the paint.

Acid washes will remove these particles from the paint, not just removing the protruding portions. Think of them like a deep pore cleaner one might use on their face.

pontman -

It seems as though you may be on the right track. To be sure thoough, as I can't see the paint, take it to a qualified paint and body shop and ask them if the clear is damaged.

Anthony
"The Art & Science Of Auto Detail"

#20 Alfisti

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 04:58 AM

As a point of interest, I had rust blooms from raildust on my white Alfa.

It took me a long time to figure what it was...several months after joining Autopia.

I clayed the surface once which removed the rusting raildust. Its never returned.
Paul Marmarinos
Flawless Prestige Detailing

I was on Autopia before the stars were torn down. :secret




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