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How soon after repainting to polish, wax etc?


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#1 Licit

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:32 AM

I just got my car back last week after it had the bumper nad hood repaired and repainted. How long do I need to give the fresh clear coat before I start detailing on it? I recall someone damaging theirs in thye past by not waiting long enough and polishing.

#2 Apollo_Auto

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:52 AM

Usually about a week is OK, but I'd wait 2 just to be in the safe side.
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#3 mystic04

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:31 AM

depends on the paint and clear thats was used from what i have read before a good 30 to 60 days for the paint to cure. You could use a glaze for the time being but nothing that will seal the paint. You may be able to do some light polishing but i would waite longer than a week or two .you can ask the body shop how long before you can polish they should have a better idea.
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#4 jayh2301

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:32 AM

I would wait about 90days on the higher end clears
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#5 karburn

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:36 AM

My body shop said 90 days to be on the safe side.

#6 RZJZA80

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 05:40 AM

entirely depends on the paint and clear maker. It ranges from 30-120 days from what I've seen.

#7 Accumulator

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:58 AM

This comes up frequently, and there's a thread where MirrorFinishMan contacted all the major paint manufacturers. They *ALL* said the same thing- wait 60-90 days whether it was baked or not.

I've experienced first-hand how even baked paint can continue to harden for several months during the outgassing process. I always wait at least 90 days before I wax/seal, using something like Meguiar's #5 in the meantime.

As the paint cures it gets harder. You can wetsand/polish/etc. about as soon as the paint is dry, but that progressive hardening will affect how things turn out. Some paints are so soft for the first few weeks that it's very hard to finish-polish them.

#8 weekendwarrior

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:02 PM

As the paint cures it gets harder. You can wetsand/polish/etc. about as soon as the paint is dry, but that progressive hardening will affect how things turn out. Some paints are so soft for the first few weeks that it's very hard to finish-polish them.


I have spent a good bit of time around the body shop lately polishing out some classic car restorations. One thing I noticed is that the amount of hardener mixed into the paint can differ from painter to painter. Some guys don't put as much in, and can result in what Accumulator mentions above, where it is VERY hard to finish it out with anything. Conversely, I have seen guys put a good bit of hardener in, and I had to break out the hard core wool pad, and compound to even make a dent in the fresh paint.
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#9 Conan777

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:30 PM

Ask a question and get tons of different answers ha..ha..! I too hang out in a Body Shop and am learning how to do paint work myself. Like others have said you can pretty much buff after the car comes out of the booth which is often necessary to get rid of some dust nibs etc or if working on a show car that will have extra layers of clear. They sand the clear after about 3 coats to level the orange peel then lay a couple more layers down and wet sand again then buff. The finish is like a mirror. Now I have learned that leaving a freshly painted car in the booth overnight with the doors closed can totally ruin the paintjob because the heater shuts off and the fans shut off and all the solvent out-gassing falls back onto the paint and makes the finish really dull. Only way to fix this is to repaint the car. So with that being said I would wait a couple weeks before applying any type of wax or sealant to be on the safe side.
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#10 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 05:57 PM

Your repainted panel is buffed before you come and pick it up. So why can they do it and not you?

How many really think that a layer of wax can prevent out gassing? Is a layer of wax so powerful that it will keep paint from hardening? If that be true then how does the base coat cure if covered with another layer of paint?

We had some bumper repairs today and about 2 hours after we wet sanded the areas, polished them and waxed it.

Paint suppliers and the paint shop itself may state to wait 60 or 90 days but then ask yourself how long is the paint job under warranty? Maybe 60 or 90 days? I've installed clear bras on repainted cars hours after they have been painted, no ill effects. If the painter is good and knows his or her stuff then it shouldn't be an issue.

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#11 III

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 09:14 AM

Is a layer of wax so powerful that it will keep paint from hardening? If that be true then how does the base coat cure if covered with another layer of paint?
Anthony


Good point. I'm no body shop expert, but paint manufacturers must say to wait for a reason. Who are we to disagree? Let's discuss.

#12 BigJimZ28

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 09:22 AM

How many really think that a layer of wax can prevent out gassing?


I do


If that be true then how does the base coat cure if covered with another layer of paint?



paint is porous

#13 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:05 AM

I do





paint is porous



By that reasoning then wax should be more durable because it's not porous?

Paint is highly cross linked, so much so that only something smaller on a molecular level can penetrate it, such as water or other solvents.

Wax cannot prevent gassing out nor can it prevent fading of paint. Wax lays on top of paint so I would be more concerned about polymer sealants as they cross link on the paint......even though they still reside on top of the paint.

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#14 III

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:17 AM

Wax cannot prevent gassing out nor can it prevent fading of paint.Anthony


Wax cannot prevent gassing out: I'm totally lost now. Wouldn't a wax seal the surface, thus nothing can escape? Isn't this why paint manufacturers recommend waiting?

Nor can it prevent fading of paint: Agree, it wouldn't prevent it 100%, but wouldn't it help prevent it a little?

#15 BigJimZ28

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:55 AM

If that be true then how does the base coat cure if covered with another layer of paint?


Paint is highly cross linked, so much so that only something smaller on a molecular level can penetrate it, such as water or other solvents.


so you think the gasses are are NOT small on the molecular level?



By that reasoning then wax should be more durable because it's not porous?



being porous has nothing to do with how durable somethinbg is
a rock is porous and it's durable

#16 Accumulator

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 12:18 PM

There are always people on both sides of this one, doubt we'll ever all be in agreement.

I'm willing to accept that maybe I'm just erring on the side of caution; AFAIK the real issue is whether the paint will attain maximum potential hardness or not and that's not something I'm willing to gamble with over a few months without LSP. In my case, using a glaze (or even mothballing the vehicle) is no big deal, so maybe it's easy for me to adhere to my point of view.

When both my painters and the paint manufacturers say to wait, and when I've experienced the continuing hardening first-hand, that's good enough for me. Would the LSP have interfered? :nixweiss I dunno but I'm not gonna find out, I have no compelling reason to run the risk.

How long is my paint warranted for? Both the guys I patronize will redo any of their work at any time if something goes wrong; my 100% satisfaction is more important to them than the time/money involved and they simply stand behind their work. There's no tie-in with the wait time in my case, they both simply believe as I do regarding the outgassing. But yeah, I'm cynical enough to see how that could play into the advice some shops give...like the old "don't wash it for a month" bit (gee, don't want 'em to wash off that glaze huh?).

Eh...IMO, this is just one of those topics where all we can do is present our respective sides of the argument, agree to disagree, and then let people make their own decisions.

I read somewhere that Ford has declared OCW acceptable for post-production paintwork. Maybe that'd be a viable option for somebody who doesn't want to stick with a glaze but still wants to play it somewhat safe. I know that Zaino is supposed to be OK, and that Sal Zaino was a painter, but my "good" painter is a big Zaino fan and he still says to wait. Gets right back to how everybody has to weigh the arguments and make their own decision.

#17 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 03:44 PM

Wax cannot prevent gassing out: I'm totally lost now. Wouldn't a wax seal the surface, thus nothing can escape? Isn't this why paint manufacturers recommend waiting?

Nor can it prevent fading of paint: Agree, it wouldn't prevent it 100%, but wouldn't it help prevent it a little?


Wax does NOT seal the surface but rather lays on top. Wax is nothing more than a sacrificial barrier between your polished paint and the elements. Wax cannot prevent hard water spots BUT it can lessen the damage. Wax cannot prevent bird poo from etching your clear but it's possible it can lessen the damage.

Wax is an oil product which lays on top of the paint but it does not create an impenetrable barrier.

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#18 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 03:52 PM

so you think the gasses are are NOT small on the molecular level?






being porous has nothing to do with how durable somethinbg is
a rock is porous and it's durable


Gassing out can pass through the clear thus it can pass through a layer of temporary wax. My whole point is that wax is no where near as durable nor as tightly cross linked as paint thus it is far more "porous"....hence gasses can pass through it.

As already noted though, there may be no way to convince people of their view, whichever it may be. I can say though having spoken now with 3 different paint chemists they all tell me that wax does not inhibit gassing out.

Anthony
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#19 David Fermani

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 04:14 PM

How about using solvent based LSP's? Anything wrong with using these on fresh, uncured finishes?

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#20 Anthony Orosco

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 04:30 PM

How about using solvent based LSP's? Anything wrong with using these on fresh, uncured finishes?


Great question to ask and one area that I forgot to mention. The use of solvent waxes/sealants should be avoided. Stick with water based products.

Thanks for the reminder David.

Anthony
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