Quick Detailing, Wholesale Detailing, Fleet Detailing - Underrepresented Here?

[DutrowLLC]

Originally Posted by 07e90

This thread is like going to a Prius forum and talking about Hummer owners not being represented...

Or going to the NASA forum and talking about how to adapt carbon fiber originally developed for satellites to make a stronger and lighter bicycle frame.

[jayjacque]

I'm not a pro detailer by any stretch, but I guess the subject is realistic to a degree. You gotta go with what makes you money and maintains a comfortable profit margin. Still rubs me the wrong way though. I come on here to learn to excel and really appreciate the pro's sharing their experiences with products & application, detailing, tips, tricks, problem solving, etc. Some of the good OTC products also get their due respect.

[Denzil]

I don't know... detailing is a hobby for me. So, if I can get paid for doing it, it's just a bonus for me. At this point in time I'm not really concerned about $/hr considering I have many avenues of making money.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by todd@bsaw

I will link you to my previous thread with a similar premise:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/profess...detailing.html


It appears that Setec had missed that thread because it lacks any cynical posts from him (or any of the other aloof posts). This site isn't exclusive to any certain type of detailing. It is those members that make it an imaginary exclusive club.

We discuss detailing in many different levels. No type of detailing is 'not allowed'. I have especially found it more accepting in the Professional forum than the General Discussion...
I wonder why...

You know, I'm really sorry if that's the way I came off or if that's the way you interpreted it. If you looked at my post history a bit more, you would see that I have on many occasions defended members' right to post what they want and express their opinions, as I would for this OP.

I'm not sure how you consider this statement from my last post "aloof" or "exclusionary":

"And just to repeat myself and echo some of the other members, there's certainly room for everybody in this world, and on this forum. I think it's just a big business/small business dichotomy, and as I said above, I think the general Autopian mindset lends itself to the latter. "

I was just expressing my observation and opinion about the general tilt of the membership, and believe it or not I thought of you when I was composing my post, as you came to mind as one of the members whose business seemed to align with the OP's.

If you knew anything about me personally, you would also know that I subscribe to the OP's theory that a volume/production detailer is a required service, and that there is as much knowledge and skill required, in a different way, to be successful at that as there is to detail half-million dollar exotics. If you ever read any of the "economics" discussions we have here from time to time, you would see that I reject the notions that there is not a place for every industry and worker here in the US, that we can somehow get by on the "aloof" notion that we can be a country of only white collars, that makes nothing, or that we can "subcontract" the perceived cheap labor or "dirty" jobs out to a less-developed or perceived to be "lesser" country.

My father used to be proud of the fact that he didn't make pencils, a job that he seemed to feel was beneath him or was for a lesser person. I noticed he wrote with a pencil every day, and had quite a collection of them, an irony not lost on me.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally Posted by todd@bsaw

I will link you to my previous thread with a similar premise:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/profess...detailing.html


It appears that Setec had missed that thread because it lacks any cynical posts from him (or any of the other aloof posts). This site isn't exclusive to any certain type of detailing. It is those members that make it an imaginary exclusive club.

Oh, and I didn't miss that thread. However, you presented yourself and your frustration at not being able to provide the services that you felt your customers needed or their vehicles deserved, because they would not pay for it, as opposed to the OP here who seems to be on the defensive.

I noticed this quote from your originating post in that thread: "This is an area of concern for me because I am much happier (and more talented) working on paint correction, not scraping old apple sauce from the floor of a minivan or vacuuming up french fries from between the drivers seat." A statement some might perhaps find cynical and aloof

[mcc]

Dutrow, I think I have a lot in common with you. I love coming on here to see what others are doing, as many of you do work that I simply don't have the skills to do but am fascinated by. The level of perfection that most strive for here is to be commended, but not why I got into detailing in the first place.

My story:

My wife and I had a cleaning business, working for some apartment communities. At one point we had a huge account with a large property management firm, and our business was set to go over 6 figures in profit. Things were quite good. One day we went to our clients to clean for them, and found out that they had just sold out to multiple other companies and broken up the lot of communities. In one day we lost everything, as these new companies used in-house employees to handle what we had been contracted to do.

In the ensuing mess, we knew that we had to do something to get money coming in. I had the idea for a mobile car wash, or a mobile wash and wax operation, before knowing that such things even existed. After looking online I found that I wasn't the first to have such an idea, and I built my own small business detailing vehicles my way. I do absolutely zero paint correction, but I've been doing this now for about 4 years, and my area seems to be pointed toward budget detailing moreso than the concourse detailing. At first, people balked at paying more than $50 to get their vehicle taken care of. Now I get more than that, offering my brand of details for $90 and $120. I do no dealer work, as the dealers here that I've contacted won't pay more than $75 for anything. My work comes from working class people that want their vehicle to shine for a while. I give people what they want, and although I do enjoy what I do, I enjoy it on their level, one that doesn't expect perfection. There are pictures of my work on my website, and I think I make my customer's vehicles look great, as do they. Could I be better at what I do and strive for perfection? Yes, and I'd love to know how to do it. Would they pay for it though? No way, so it would be a waste of my time.

I would love to know how you built your business, Dutrow. I'm good at getting business, but my wife and I have our cleaning business still (focusing on individual homes now and doing great) and I still do the work in both businesses. I would love to see how someone like you went from doing the work to having others do it, and how you find people that will actually do it for you. If I could be freed up to go get accounts rather than do the accounts myself, I could really blow this thing open. On the 29th I have a biweekly wash service starting at 2 office complexes, offering an ONR wash, wheel cleaning, interior wipedown, vacuum, and windows for $30 or so depending on the size of the vehicles. I could get many more complexes set up if I had people doing the work for me. I've just never really known how to get people to do the work for me and how to handle paying them best.

So, there are others like you that enjoy what they do and take pride in what they do, but are in it for the money as a business, not as a perfectionist. You are just much further along in the process than someone like myself is at this point.

[David Fermani]

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

If you knew anything about me personally, you would also know that I subscribe to the OP's theory that a volume/production detailer is a required service, and that there is as much knowledge and skill required, in a different way, to be successful at that as there is to detail half-million dollar exotics.

Bravo Setec! That's probably one of the biggest misunderstandings on this forum. People here constantly assume, slander and talk down on people who own fixed location shops and believe that these people's opinions/stance within the detailing community doesn't mean much. I feel these people who constantly judge are probably the most 1 dimensional people to call themselves a business owner & probably don't have a clue at what an entrepreneurial concept is. Personally, I hope they stay in their security blanketed comfort zone and waste away.....

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by David Fermani

From direct experience, Volume/wholesale detailing & Autopian style of detail are complete polar opposites. Personally, if you desire to make an unlimited amount of income, owning a successful volume operation is the only way!

David since you have experience doing both and have (IMO) stepped up your game considerably in the last couple months, which style do you prefer? If you don't mind me asking, how much money can a volume shop produce?

[TH0001]

Also, while I focus on the high end detailing (not cars but services) I must commend the OP. His posts are very honest and well thought out and personally I would love to learn more about volume detailing for the share nature of knowledge.

[David Fermani]

Originally Posted by TH0001

David since you have experience doing both and have (IMO) stepped up your game considerably in the last couple months, which style do you prefer? If you don't mind me asking, how much money can a volume shop produce?

That's a 2 sided question.
I'm officially retired from "the business" and ONLY detail now for the pure love of the hobby. I only do work for a select group of people/situations and turn down work all the time.
Honestly, I miss owning my shop and it's probably one of the largest factors that gravitates me to this forum.
My shop produced about a half million in revenue per year(for about 10 years). I only know of a few shops that do the same or more. Most are alot less.
I find it almost impossible to generate that amount of revenue without doing volume work (dealerships). For someone to do this doing "high end" work, you'd have to have a large staff/large building and charge ALOT of money.

[MakitaNinja]

Originally Posted by DutrowLLC

About 99% of what I learned about detailing aside from trial-and-error, I learned from this forum. However, I've noticed that this forum is heavily weighted towards a boutique brand of detailing that in my experience:
* Is much more difficult
* Has lower profit margins
* Is less scalable

I am an entrepreneur by nature. I did not get into this business because I like to clean cars. I got into this business because I like to do something new every day while I pay other people to clean cars (not that I don't like getting outside and cleaning cars every once in a while, just not every day)

I'm writing this thread to see if there are any other people like me on here, and to see if a dialog can be opened up for us to share our experiences, hints, knowledge and know-how.

A few examples of the kinds of things I do:
* I avoid services that someone cannot learn how to do in a few days.
* I NEVER tell customers I will remove scratches or do wet-sanding. I tell them very light scratches will probably be removed or be less visible. I do this because:
a) It is difficult to communicate to a customer over the phone what kinds of scratches a detailer can and cannot remove and customers have a strong statistical likelihood of under representing the damage.
b) Most calls I get are from people wanting their cars to look shiny and nice and to clean out the interior that has been trashed by their two year old. Customers who are looking for a detailer experienced with a rotary and wet sanding are, in my experience, a statistical minority.
c) Proper scratch removal requires a high level of skill as well as assumption of risk. In my experience, it is much more profitable to operate to stick to jobs that are easier, less risky, less expensive for the customer, and more straight-forward.
* I NEVER use a rotary. Rotaries require a high level of skill and are risky. It is hard to train someone new in a reasonable amount of time to use a rotary. (I use Dual-Action Polisherers)
* I offer low-cost services in bulk. I use day-laborers for a lot of the wholesale stuff.
a) Quick washes, spray-waxes, vaccuum, and Dashboard wipe-down for $30 (minimum of 10 cars)
b) Auto dealerships
c) vehicle fleets
d) calcium/cement deposit removal for parking garages (2/3 posts I found on cement removal suggest using vinagar which doesn't work very well, I use something that dissolves it on contact)
e) The kicker for all this is I make a lot of money doing this stuff. Using advice and methods on here, I'd have to charge much more and make much less.
* I have computer software that I wrote myself that handles my scheduling. It uploads a calendar online so that the detailers can view what they are scheduled for and download and print out job information and invoices for the customer. I'm currently having a better version of this software developed my someone else.
* I use chemicles and products that work very well in my opinion, but seem to be vastly cheaper and easier to use than anything reccommended on here. (Seriously people, why would you want to work just to pay for your supplies and equipment?)

Some of the products I use are:
* Turtle Wax Ice Car Wash
a) Eliminates water spots
b) leaves paint glossy
c) costs $6.99/ gal @ Costco
d) I saw some clown on here offering some boutique car wash that looked like it did the same damn thing on this site for $30/gal.
* Stoners Products! - I order the cleaners in 5 gallon drums, 55 gallons at a time for the 55 gallon drum price. Shipping is free East side of the Mississippi and usually comes the next day. This company is awesome, they actually develop and manufacture the products themselves. (Stoner is your factory direct source for professional detailing products and car wash chemicals & supplies.)
-) Bead Max (straight polymer sealant, aerosol can)
-) Spead Bead (polymer sealant w/ cleaners, aerosol can)
-) Polish and Seal (One step)
-) APC (heavy dillutions)
-) Wheel Cleaner (heavy dillutions)
-) Trim shine
-) Tarminator
-) Window cleaner
* Microfibres from Costco
* Odo-Ban from Sams Club
* Detailing brushes from Wal-Mart ( sells brushes that work great for cup holders and another that is awesome for the crevice between the seats and center console)
* Zaino - (A good value, in my opinion, for our higher end stuff)

My Question:
- I have a lot of questions, but the one I was looking for the answer too that got me side-tracked writing this post is:
---Where the heck do I get good polishing pads for cheap???---
I feel like polishing pads are such a rip-off. They wear out too fast for my taste and cost too much to be just a stupid pad. Right now I use EDGE pads which I think are expensive, but they last longer. I used to use the ones with the velcro backing plates and the backing plates would get all full of gunk that I couldn't wash off and quit sticking to the pads. I feel like pads should cost a lot less than they do.

This website has some of the best detailer in the world, it also has a bunch of money motivated conveyor belt owners, which are not very good detailers, which side of the line do you stand.

[2k2blackWRX]

I actually find this thread very interesting for a number of reasons. When I first bought my WRX in 2002 I got heavily into detailing through Autopia and doing everything the "perfect" way. One summer back from college I began working at a "detail shop" this was a fixed location with a very small 1 bay garage. Much of the work being done there wasn't that great and it was work for the general public around here. Not many exotics but we did get our fair share of BMW's, Mercedes, Porches and what not.

After spending some time there I gave many suggestions to the owner from switching to a PC from a rotary because he was putting holograms in the car, to using stoners products for many things. The quality of work improved but it wasn't autopian standards, yet when you need to move more cars to make money to live you can't spend hours and hours detailing 1 car.

6 Years later, I am working with the same person but we have moved into a large shop with a showroom, room for 6 cars inside the garage and a used car dealer license. With 3 of us working we pump out about 5 cars a day or so and we just moved into the new shop in December. I KNOW that many autopians probably would scoff at a large fixed location like this but just like the OP, the owner needs to make a living and this is how we do it. If we didn't push the cars out as fast as possible then he would go broke.

Just like the OP, we buy our products in bulk, we have 55 gal drums of all of the major stoners products and we buy bulk cheap microfiber towels. Yet the cars we do still turn out pretty great. If John Doe comes in with his 2002 BMW 5 series that he takes his kids to sports all times of the year and has built up a ton of grime and gunk on the inside, and taken his car to car washes at least once a week, he is not looking for Autopian perfection. We can take that BMW and make the interior look brand new, we will work on the exterior but why spend hours and hours on paint correction when John Doe doesn't care?

Yes we also detail high end cars if they are brought to us, we have a Ferrari Marinello we clean every few weeks and we spend about the same time on just touching that car up that we do on a full detail on a trashed car.

As for the quick wash and vac's, we don't do those. We really do want the customer to be impressed with their car and while I have washed and vacuumed some cars and they have looked 100% better at that point, we really try to please the customers. Just like the OP, if we aren't pleasing the customers and giving them what they feel is the best value then we are not satisfied.

So while we might not take as much time on the little things that some Autopians would, we strive to please the customer and to increase our profits and reduce costs. We buy in bulk in some places but we also have some high quality equipment. I doubt you will find many if any autopians with the hot water extractor we use.

I have seen both sides of the coin. I personally have had a hand in changing the shop I work from where it was before to putting out higher quality details. I can assure you that on the interior the work we do is top notch. On the exterior it just depends on how bad the paint is.

On another note, to the OP, we too have trouble with pads wearing out too fast. We used Meg's pads and they really suck and its annoying how fast they wear out. Also since you are really pushing speed and quality, we have found that by attaching a scrub brush to an additional PC that we have we can scrub floormats and interiors extremely fast and better than any hand motion can.

We don't do many volume dealers unless we are running slow days. We deal with a number of dealerships and because we have a used car dealer license we have plates we will take to the dealer and pick up cars. Usually we get around $110-$125 per car from a dealer whereas the regular prices are higher. We can't really compete in the car wash market, we are on an extremely busy road that has a chain car wash on it that takes those customers, not that we want them really anyhow, although many cars we detail have the chains coupons in it.