Quick Detailing, Wholesale Detailing, Fleet Detailing - Underrepresented Here?

[2k2blackWRX]

Originally Posted by MakitaNinja

This website has some of the best detailer in the world, it also has a bunch of money motivated conveyor belt owners, which are not very good detailers, which side of the line do you stand.

Since when did there have to be a line? You do realize this thread is in the "Professional Detailers" forum. If you look around many of the threads are about businesses. While MOST of the people who detail professionally seem to have a full time job, there are those who detail as a career. I hate to break the news to you but for any professional there has to be some motivation of money, otherwise we would all do it for free!

[Accumulator]

I'm truly glad (and more than a little surprised) that this thread hasn't, uhm... degenerated to the point of getting locked.

It *has* occurred to me that the reason this type of detailing might be under-represented here could be that it's simply *not* the kind of detailing that forum members are interested in. This community is based on a commonality of interest and I had wondered if it would stretch this far. Seems like maybe it can and IMO that's good.

Repeating myself...it doesn't have to be an either/or type of thing. The jobs I do on service loaners and rentals sure aren't the same as the jobs I do on my good vehicles, but that doesn't mean they're *bad* jobs. And somebody doing the best they can with the resources they have (e.g., time) doesn't mean they're doing bad work either. Heh heh, in my area a pro who only did Autopian-level details would get about three jobs a year.

2k2blackWRX- I enjoyed reading how you've ratcheted things up at your shop That's the sort of thing I think is happening at the detail shops in my area.

Just out of curiosity, which extractor *do* you use? (I have a Century.) I usually find that the commerical equipment folks like you have is money well-spent and though not a pro, I sure enjoy using pro-level equipment as it often just works better.

DutrowLLC- Long-lived pads: The orange polishing pads that Griot's Garage sells (different from the usual orange light-cutting pads) wear like iron. They're fairly gentle despite being quite firm and oughta be OK for moderate correction and one-step jobs. Problem is that Griot's has such high prices that these are probably not feasible for a commercial situation. Still...if you could find them cheaply they'd be great for what you're doing.

Likewise, if your shop used Cyclo brand polishers, I find that their "standard" green foam pads last quite a long time too. They do loose a little bit of their original cut, but then they stay OK for ages. We used each set for a long, long time back when I had the dealership.

Oh, and I *will* you a little for saying that "..some clown on here.." was selling a shampoo you think might be comparable to what you use. Besides that you haven't used it and thus don't really know about it, I'd suggest you ixnay on the name-calling as he's just trying to make a living too If you wanna call somebody a clown you can pick on me for posting on the Professional forum as much as I do

[2k2blackWRX]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I'm truly glad (and more than a little surprised) that this thread hasn't, uhm... degenerated to the point of getting locked.

It *has* occurred to me that the reason this type of detailing might be under-represented here could be that it's simply *not* the kind of detailing that forum members are interested in. This community is based on a commonality of interest and I had wondered if it would stretch this far. Seems like maybe it can and IMO that's good.

Repeating myself...it doesn't have to be an either/or type of thing. The jobs I do on service loaners and rentals sure aren't the same as the jobs I do on my good vehicles, but that doesn't mean they're *bad* jobs. And somebody doing the best they can with the resources they have (e.g., time) doesn't mean they're doing bad work either. Heh heh, in my area a pro who only did Autopian-level details would get about three jobs a year.

2k2blackWRX- I enjoyed reading how you've ratcheted things up at your shop That's the sort of thing I think is happening at the detail shops in my area.

Just out of curiosity, which extractor *do* you use? (I have a Century.) I usually find that the commerical equipment folks like you have is money well-spent and though not a pro, I sure enjoy using pro-level equipment as it often just works better.

DutrowLLC- Long-lived pads: The orange polishing pads that Griot's Garage sells (different from the usual orange light-cutting pads) wear like iron. They're fairly gentle despite being quite firm and oughta be OK for moderate correction and one-step jobs. Problem is that Griot's has such high prices that these are probably not feasible for a commercial situation. Still...if you could find them cheaply they'd be great for what you're doing.

Likewise, if your shop used Cyclo brand polishers, I find that their "standard" green foam pads last quite a long time too. They do loose a little bit of their original cut, but then they stay OK for ages. We used each set for a long, long time back when I had the dealership.

Oh, and I *will* you a little for saying that "..some clown on here.." was selling a shampoo you think might be comparable to what you use. Besides that you haven't used it and thus don't really know about it, I'd suggest you ixnay on the name-calling as he's just trying to make a living too If you wanna call somebody a clown you can pick on me for posting on the Professional forum as much as I do

I posted in another thread but we use:

Thermax DV12
The Therminator DV12 is Thermax’s newest industrial steam cleaner, which aggressively removes dirt, grime, odors and other embedded pollutants with unmatched efficiency.

* Powerful dual two-stage vacuum motors (165” water lift) for faster cleaning, increased recovery speed and quicker drying time.
* Built-in 1800-watt solution pre-heating system for quick, uniform temperature control (up to 175°).
* 11-Gallon hygienic stainless steel solution tank.
* 12-Gallon large capacity recovery tank with automatic overflow protection shut-off and waste gate empty system.
* Single 25' power cord for one circuit operation.
* High-impact, chemical resistant housing with conditional lifetime warranty - virtually indestructible.
* 100 psi high-efficiency demand solution pump (65-psi pump option available for auto detailing).
* Engineered for mobility and stability, tip resistant operation.
* Built-in dolly handle for greater control and maneuverability.
* Large 8” rear wheels make it easy to go up and down stairs.
* Marine sealed switches.

The water is so hot that some of the metal parts on the hoses will burn you and we have to cover them up. The tanks are large enough to do a full day of detailing on one fill, although I have been known to use 3/4 of a tank on a bad minivan.

Our old one would leave cars damp for hours if not days. This one sucks so well that seats are dry within 30 minutes of cleaning them.

[Accumulator]

2k2blackWRX- Thanks for the info. That single-plug design must be handy, I have to give some thought to which outlets are on which circuits or I overload things with my Century.

And yeah, fittings hot enough to burn ya = nice hot water all right! The first time I got careless, well, it was a bit of a surprise

Being able to get things dry in a hurry is the sort of thing that high-volume shops can teach the rest of us

Quick isn't always a bad thing...I cobbled together a DIY nozzle for my extractor to speed things up even more as the factory nozzles left things a little too damp for me when the vehicle had to go right back into service. Time will tell if the nozzle's small opening is making my extractor's motors work too hard, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[DutrowLLC]

Accumulator - So, I didn't expect this thread to stir up so much emotion, otherwise I wouldn't have made the "clown" comment. And you're right, I haven't used the $30 car wash, and I'm not going to. But my guess is that you'd be hard pressed to find something better than the Turtle Wax Ice Car Wash that I get for $6.99/gal at Costco. And it does get me a little emotional when people try to sell me things for a price multiples higher than I could get it elsewhere, these are the kinds of people who kill entrepreneurs. I should also note that the Turtle Wax Ice Car Wash is hard to find at that price. Over the winter, Costco stopped selling it, and the next closest I could find was $7.99 for 1/2 gallon purchased by case from a distributor.

MakitaNinja - You asked me which line do I stand on? Well, let me make one thing clear first. Ego and Insecurity are death to an entrepreneur. These things allow a man to be manipulated and/or swayed from what is his primary purpose: to grow his business and turn a greater and greater profit. That being said. Its not a black and white issue, most things are not black and white issues. A good analogy is that I try to be the Chipotle of the detailing industry. Did you know that Steve Ells, the founder of Chipotle is a 5 star chef? His dream was to start a 5 star restaurant and be the lead chef/owner and pioneer his own menu. But he realized that 5 star restaurants are risky and the demand for them is low, so he started Chipotle as a "cash cow" to finance his 5 star restaurant. I don't know if you've ever eaten at Chipotle, but the food is a good value. The ingredients are all fresh and healthy. The food is tasty, comes fast, but also pretty cheap. He applied his 5 star knowledge of foods to create his fast-food concept. He's now one of the richest people in the country. He doesn't have his 5 star restaurant though because his goals have changed. Instead of creating a 5 star restaurant that only a few priviledged could enjoy, he created a healthy, tasty fast-food option that in my opinion is superior to almost all other fast food.

I look at a lot of the hard core detailers on here as 5 Star Chefs of detailing. What I try to do is adapt that information and knowledge to create services for customers that provide good quality for an affordable price. I call this concept "value"

mcc - Yeah, I feel your pain. I'm always freaking out that one of my avenues of income will dry up and screw me. I have this concept that I call "liquidity" in my head. It means decreasing the number of variables that can change that will have a direct impact on your business. When I got my first car dealership account, I almost immediately started thinking about getting more. The money was good, but what if the dealer decided to go with someone else? How would I sustain my income and keep my promise of employment to my employee? What if the employee I had serving the dealer flaked? How would I keep my promise to the dealer? If I was doing 5-10 dealerships, not only would I be rolling in dough, but my stress level would be lower too because I would not be sweating any one individual client. If they switched providers or didn't want to agree to my terms, then sianara! If one guy flaked, I could just move one of my many other guys to that account and then start some of my other detailers training a few more guys and then cherry pick the best one. The idea of getting business in only one way or from only one client freaks me out.

As for hiring employees, this is HARD. Probably the hardest thing I've had to figure out how to do. The best things I can tell you is that: 1) Its a numbers game. You have to interview and work with a whole bunch of people, like 20, to get just one good person. But one good person is a cash cow. 2) You have to interview people out on the job and turn a profit or at least break even doing it. I interview people at the job site, I have them do work the first day, and I pay them. In the likely event that I won't hire them, I want to still make sure I didn't lose money off them and hopefully made a little. 3) If you're out at your sites doing your $30 services now and you get overwhelmed, I suggest using day laborers. They work hard under supervision and do what you say. Plus, they always show up for work because even if the same ones from yesterday aren't at the 7-11, there will be new ones. Pretty soon you will have a pool of candidates to choose from and enough poeple you have previously worked with will be there. Thats when the money really starts to get good, because if you turned a profit off them the first day, imagine how much money you'll make when they get the hang of it and start working faster and more efficiently? 4) I pay people above industry standard. I HATE dealing with problems weather they be customer complaints or anything else. I tell my people "I like my serenity" I don't want any problems, they get paid well because they should be smart enough and hard working enough to do a good job every time and deal with any X factors that pop up along the way. They do this because the money is good and they like me and appreciate me because I pay them well and always have their back. 5) Pay using commission when possible. I give my detailers a minimum hourly wage just in case a job takes much longer than expected, but for the most part, detailers get paid a set amount per job. This motivates them to work more efficiently. They don't dottle along draining away my money on a per hour wage. And they earn me more money because they learn how to do more work in less time meaning their output is higher. 6) Do NOT tolerate any excuses for lateness, or inferior work. My detailers are paid to arrive on time, do a good job and make the customer happy EVERY time. If that doesn't happen in its entirety, I DON'T CARE why. People are wizards at making up good excuses.

[JuneBug]

I detail on the side and for family and friends, co-workers, etc. I have learned a lot about products and techniques here. For all that, I'm very thankful to Autopia and to all the members that I've bugged for advice! Reading this thread got me to thinking, really deep thoughts about how I do details and what my "customers" actually want. Basically, they want a clean, shiny car. The extreme I take things to since I first started has reached it's peak. I no longer try to make every detail into a show car or even take it to "my" way above the norm standard. I've learned that it's better to polish less, fill more and to try to get my customers to agree to a 4-6 week quick wask/wax. I supposed this had to happen sooner or later, but the final straw was spending a hour and a half on a set of dirty rims that the customer just glanced at and said "nice " ( I scrubed the inside part back to silver).

The other part to this is price of products. I've started using rebadged CG chemicals and Megs detailers line instead of the higher priced boutique stuff. I love Menzerna but I found I can get things done with IP and FFII and my 106 is sitting unused. My wife and I have fairly new cars and they in excellant shape so all we may do is experiment with some wax, with Souveran being the limit. So I gues in some folks eyes I'm not a real autopian (whatever that means) or I've turned into a hack - whatever! If the customer is happy, and I'm not killing myself for 10 bucks an hour then everything else has the weight of a fart in a tornado.

[Accumulator]

DutrowLLC- Perhaps I was sensitive about the shampoo vendor because I find it necessary to use an expensive shampoo, which wouldn't be cost-effective for a Pro. Different horses for different courses and all that.

Originally Posted by JuneBug

.. I no longer try to make every detail into a show car or even take it to "my" way above the norm standard. I've learned that it's better to polish less, fill more ..

Heh heh, I commend you for daring to post that here at Autopia At least your customers might still have original paint if they keep their cars for decades.

Welcome to the "Autopian Heretics Club"

[DutrowLLC]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

DutrowLLC- Perhaps I was sensitive about the shampoo vendor because I find it necessary to use an expensive shampoo, which wouldn't be cost-effective for a Pro. Different horses for different courses and all that.



Heh heh, I commend you for daring to post that here at Autopia At least your customers might still have original paint if they keep their cars for decades.

Welcome to the "Autopian Heretics Club"

I feel ya.

Out of curiosity, what does this shampoo do?

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by DutrowLLC

I feel ya.

Out of curiosity, what does this shampoo do?

Generally, higher quality shampoo has higher lubricity thereby reducing the possibility of swirls appearing during the wash step. Also, higher lubricity will make removing dirt easier reducing the possibility of introducing swirls at that step as well.

[AppliedColors]

There's a lot of money to be made in the $30 wash/vac/wipe down market...it's a huge market.

The problem, and the reason I've avoided the service, is that you have to run a 5 - 10 man unskilled crew. The management problems are huge: immigration, punctuality, mistakes, drugs, theft, etc.

I choose to manage a small, skilled crew and get a good night's rest every night.

[Holden_C04]

Originally Posted by AppliedColors

There's a lot of money to be made in the $30 wash/vac/wipe down market...it's a huge market.

The problem, and the reason I've avoided the service, is that you have to run a 5 - 10 man unskilled crew. The management problems are huge: immigration, punctuality, mistakes, drugs, theft, etc.

I choose to manage a small, skilled crew and get a good night's rest every night.

That's definitely the way to run a shop.

[Showroom Shine]

Originally Posted by DutrowLLC

My tone was probably a little too surly when I wrote this. It was not my intention to knock people who do Exotics. Or to complain about the board. My intention is to offer a different perspective and add some new information, new ways of thinking. This forum is really great and I've learned a lot from it that is essential to my business.

You're right, I don't do a lot of exotics. But you know what? I do a lot of Mercedes and BMW 5 and 7 series's, Land Rovers, etc...

And yeah, I can train a new guy in a couple of days. But it takes months to work out the kinks with someone and get them to where they are working efficiently. I have a low turn-over rate because hate training new people and finding out if they are any good or not. I had a lot of growing pains learning to run my business. But now I have an extremely low complaint rate, my detailers are very solid and I run a right ship. Its just that I'm always reading about people trying to one-up each other on here, doing more and more complex and delicate jobs. I just read about a guy who put 17 man hours into restoring holograms from the paint on a Corvette. He used strong soaps and alchohol to remove all polishes and oils from the paint to be EXTRA sure the holograms were out, he even taped up the whole thing to do the polishing. Thats really impressive, but so much stress. I'd rather send a few guys out to clean up some toddler-trashed mini-vans and then spend my time figuring out how to secure a $50,000 annual fleet account by charging less money and providing better quality than the compettition (and making more money)

So I guess my alternative point of view is this:
- Porsche Carrera GT's and Ferrari's are great. They are beautiful cars. Their owners are probably wealthy enough to pay well too. Also, it is prestigious to do this type of vehicle, and I think very fulfilling to so many people on here to work with such beautiful pieces of machinery. Thats really great to be doing a job that you love.
- However with so much talk of these exotics, its easy to assume that this is the only way to go, the only version of detailing, the only way to satisfy the customer, the only way to run a respectable business. But you know what? Not very many people own exotics, the market is small. A lot of people have cars that a pretty too, but cost less, they want their cars to look good too, but they don't want to pay someone to put 17 man hours into removing holograms from their clear coat when a $5 spray sealant and 15 minutes can conceal them for months and some kind of sealant or wax should be maintained on the vehicle at all times anyway. Or heck, put sometime into it, take an hour or two and compound it with some Meguiars, then seal it with some Bead Max or Zaino Z-2.

And heck, the day I did 70 quick vacs, wipe downs, washes, and waxes for $30 a piece? Those cars looked great when I was done and I made $1000. Its no 17 man hour corvette detail, but it was definitely a good value for everyone involved.

The details that you are doing are what I call "Mini Details" They do not take as long, and if you do enough you can make some good money. I also have a few client's with BMW's, Lambo's, Benz, to name a few. These client's want the works, and don't mind paying for it. I've been detailing sine I was 14 for pay. I actually started this business 5 years ago. I have run into all types of cars and client's. The thing that I think is the big difference, some know what a real full detail consist of,eg: the time and processes involved. Others just want their cars clean and shinning. There are enough cars and clients for all of us detailers to find a specific group to cater to,and make some cash. jmo