Need advice regarding customer cars and swirl removal

wifehatescar · 05-31-04, 05:32

Now that I have a couple full details under my belt, I have a general question. Keep in mind I only have a PC right now. I have noticed even on cars with light to moderate swirls, something more than SSR2 for example is needed (sure I could take out all the swirls with SSR3 & multiple passes) OR you must spend *alot* of time with these moderate abrasives to ELIMINATE swirls (like what you see just around the reflection of the sun in the car's paint).
Bottom line - on most cars, to elimiate swirls would take too long (unless you're getting paid alot specifically to eliminate the swirls)

Most of my customers don't even know what a swirl mark is, but, eventually someone may comment about it. My answer to them would be that for a daily driver (show cars/toys are another issue) it's probably better to have some swirls and more paint left than less paint with most swirls gone. Besides, cutting less paint is safer for me, liability-wise...especially if I will be hired to polish their car multiple times per year.

All the cars I have done looked great and were much improved. However, *I* could see many still had some level of swirls left though. Is this acceptable for most ~$150 type interior/exterior details or do I really need to buy a rotary and step up to the "big league"? I really need some advice here, hopefully my ramblings make some kind of sense. TIA

scottabir · 05-31-04, 05:39

*I* think you are on the right track with your answer to customers. Unless you are the one doing all the washes ect on the car swirl marks are going to re-appear from washing/drying ect. On daily drivers it is just not worth the effort to eliminate ALL the swirls. IMHO in a $150 detail I usually use a polish to remove a lot of the swirls and then use a glaze to cover the rest. I dont think that is cheating anybody. I usually bust ou the rotary for severe scratches swirls ect, and for time saving reasons.
If the customer wants them all removed and is willing to pay for that service I think educating them on the dangers (more paint removed ect.) is a good idea.

wifehatescar · 05-31-04, 05:49

Thanks, my main concern is just being perceived as professional by my customers.
In my experience, almost all cars are swirled to some extent, heck even my car after multiple SSR3 passes (and many hours) is still a bit swirled. I fear to cut any more paint though.

What kind of glazes do you use?

scottabir · 05-31-04, 05:59

I am really warming up to the Akrya Finishing Glaze from topoftheline.com...(the big yellow bottle I had in the trunk at the BBQ). I think it adds a nice shine to the paint, and it does a good job at hiding swirls.

wifehatescar · 05-31-04, 06:08

Does it last at all or wash away easily?
PS-I may come visit you this summer for a rotary 101 lesson from you if that's ok with you.......

scottabir · 05-31-04, 06:16

Of course I always up for an excuse to go to the garage and detail

the wife can't say no if someone drove over from Detroit

I happen to have a few spare hoods laying around to practice on, before the Integra's paint

It doesnt last to long in my opinion, a few washes (3-4). I was hoping to try and top it with PB's EX-P and see if that helps durability at all. I topped with Trade Secret and it looked extremly good...people at work noticed a difference and commented on it.

wifehatescar · 05-31-04, 06:28

Cool, I'll send you a PM on that later......thanks!

scottabir · 05-31-04, 06:31

anytime

Here is a pic of the glaze bottle (sora) its the yellow bottle in front of the tan vacuum. Notice the nice new HONDA geneator I just picked up

ZaneO · 05-31-04, 06:41

I always give my customers this upfront disclaimer:

"While detailing can make a dramatic improvement in a vehicle's appearance, it cannot correct deep scratches or peeling clear coats, and some interior stains may be permanent. Swirl and buffer marks can be removed or dramatically reduced in most cases. We also use clay detailing when needed to remove imbedded dirt and paint overspray. We can also remove most paint oxidation as well. Only a complete visual inspection can determine what defects can be corrected and those that cannot. Because vehicle conditions can vary greatly, our pricing policy is a only a general guideline."

If I can remove 90% or more of the surface defects in a reasonable amount of time, I am usually satisfied and the customers are ecstatic.

scottabir · 05-31-04, 06:51

That is a great disclaimer Zane-o! Sums it all up in a short paragraph!

Anthony Orosco · 05-31-04, 07:51

I have an obsessive compulsive disorder about the cars finish. For "me" it HAS to be perfect. I get really upset when I either leave swirl marks or cannot remove all previous swirls and/or scratches.

My wife and my assistant can vouch for how anal I can get about this. It effects me in a bad way in that I get bogged down in cars and on many cars I end up losing money. I say this to caution you all on doing exactly what the paying customer expects. Most clients do not care about swirls as much as they do about clean wheels, shiny tires windows they can see out of and a good thorough vacumming.

Also, you may be confusing swirls with marring. Swirls look like 3D holograms in the paint and are random in appearance. Marring is caused from washing and drying or dry wiping, some people call it "spider-webbing". Swirls can be light to heavy. The lighter ones can be removed with an orbital if you have the time and patience but if not then a rotary is the tool of choice.

One can remove swirls and marring with the same product but with different pad choices. Take Light Cut for instance. A great swirl remover when used with a black finishing pad. This can handle most swirls but deeper ones may need a polishing pad.

Marring can be handled with the same product, Light Cut, but a polishing pad will be needed for this as a finishing pad is to "light".

Hope that may help,
Anthony

scottabir · 05-31-04, 11:45

What about repeat customers that introduce the marring due to their washing/drying? would it be feasible to continue to polish out the marks time after time?