$$$$$$

[VWGTI]

Thanks for all the feedback...it will help for future jobs.
Here is the a pic of the BMW.

[15951]

When I see these "$40/min an hour" threads, I think about the click and brags that claim they put 18+ hours into paint correction. NO WAY is the owner of a Honda Accord paying $800 for paint polishing.

I think the pay rate should be reflective of experience/value, just as it is in most professional service organizations. If you're just starting out and not as efficient (or good!) as an experienced pro, you're simply ripping people off if you're trying to charge $40/hour. If you've been a pro for awhile and have the knowledge, skills and ability to bust *** and get the job done quickly without compromising quality, then $40 is reasonable.

From the consumers' perspective, you have to make sure you're not overvaluing yourself out of the market. Detailing is still a luxury item for most people, and I think 90% of your customers can't tell the difference between Turtle Wax and Zaino. Accordingly, I would save the boutique products for those that actually care about that sort of thing.

Just my $0.02 - I'm not a pro, but I watch this forum with interest because the concepts apply to most any professional services discussion.

[JohnKleven]

Originally Posted by David Fermani

I take it you're not a supporter/believer in the many Pros that use a DA for correction?

Exactly... Don't get me wrong, they have their place in the detailing world. If a professional detailer really wants to spend 20 hours with a D.A. in the hands for a few hundred bucks, then have at it. D.A.'s are for home users, and for some finishing work, but better and faster results can be achieved with a real polisher.

John

[JohnKleven]

Originally Posted by VWGTI

Thanks for all the feedback...it will help for future jobs.
Here is the a pic of the BMW.

Excellent work!!!

John

[Scottwax]

Originally Posted by JohnKleven

Exactly... Don't get me wrong, they have their place in the detailing world. If a professional detailer really wants to spend 20 hours with a D.A. in the hands for a few hundred bucks, then have at it. D.A.'s are for home users, and for some finishing work, but better and faster results can be achieved with a real polisher.

John

I remember spending nearly 10 hours on a black S55 using a UDM that would now take about half that time with a rotary and the paint looks noticeably better. I can charge the same or even a bit more, end up making a lot more an hour and getting better results.

My DA buffer is great for one polishing step jobs where the customer is paying for shiny paint but isn't interested in any serious correction. Both buffers have their roles.

[weekendwarrior]

I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don't have to tape up as much on the car, and I don't have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don't have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.

Another thing I have found when using the PC to remove heavy defects is that I can often achieve in 2 steps with the PC, what would have taken me 3 in the past with the rotary. For instance, I recently polished a heavily swirled vehicle. I used M105, KBM, PC, and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I followed up with the PC, KBM, a Light Polishing Pad, and M86 (another non diminishing abraisive), and had an unbelieveable finish.

Don't get me wrong, I still use my rotary for jobs such as full wetsands on fresh paint jobs...and there are some paints that only respond to rotary correction.

The point I am trying to make here is that it is hard to make a blanket statement that a guy who uses a PC is not as skilled as a guy that uses a rotary, and is spending unneccesary time on a detail. Like everything else in detailing, it all comes down to the type of paint, defects at hand, techniques, and the skill/experience of the user.

[blkacgsr]

I agree. I use both my rotary and my PC. It all depends on what I am trying to accomplish.

[brwill2005]

Originally Posted by 15951

When I see these "$40/min an hour" threads, I think about the click and brags that claim they put 18+ hours into paint correction. NO WAY is the owner of a Honda Accord paying $800 for paint polishing.

I think the pay rate should be reflective of experience/value, just as it is in most professional service organizations. If you're just starting out and not as efficient (or good!) as an experienced pro, you're simply ripping people off if you're trying to charge $40/hour. If you've been a pro for awhile and have the knowledge, skills and ability to bust *** and get the job done quickly without compromising quality, then $40 is reasonable.

From the consumers' perspective, you have to make sure you're not overvaluing yourself out of the market. Detailing is still a luxury item for most people, and I think 90% of your customers can't tell the difference between Turtle Wax and Zaino. Accordingly, I would save the boutique products for those that actually care about that sort of thing.

Just my $0.02 - I'm not a pro, but I watch this forum with interest because the concepts apply to most any professional services discussion.

This is well said. I charge $40 an for all work, except my maintenance wash and vacuums. Those people get a better rate because their cars are done bi-weekly or monthly, and it is steady money for me year round. Even in my area of the country, which has one of the highest per capita incomes, $40 an hour is about the limit people will pay for this type of service. I also have REAL expenses (salary, insurance, car, licenses marketing etc); so once the expenses are subtracted, I am left with much less in profit. The key with detailing, as with any business, is achieving efficiencies and economies of scale. This will allow you to make much more per hour than $40. For example having a well trained team of guys detail a car quickly and efficiently and still have good quality.

[gmblack3a]

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior

I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don't have to tape up as much on the car, and I don't have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don't have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.

Another thing I have found when using the PC to remove heavy defects is that I can often achieve in 2 steps with the PC, what would have taken me 3 in the past with the rotary. For instance, I recently polished a heavily swirled vehicle. I used M105, KBM, PC, and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I followed up with the PC, KBM, a Light Polishing Pad, and M86 (another non diminishing abraisive), and had an unbelieveable finish.

Don't get me wrong, I still use my rotary for jobs such as full wetsands on fresh paint jobs...and there are some paints that only respond to rotary correction.

The point I am trying to make here is that it is hard to make a blanket statement that a guy who uses a PC is not as skilled as a guy that uses a rotary, and is spending unneccesary time on a detail. Like everything else in detailing, it all comes down to the type of paint, defects at hand, techniques, and the skill/experience of the user.

I pretty much agree with David, but I can level down wetsanding marks or heavy defects with a PC using surbuf pads/M105 on the PC.

After using a rotary for 3 years, I have not picked it up since Dec of 08 doing many corrections with the PC.

Here is a recent extreme correction done with the PC.

[Scottwax]

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior

I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don't have to tape up as much on the car, and I don't have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don't have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.

Still not sure how the KB method makes that much of a difference because the full write-up isn't out as far as I know. I will say that I have never been able to get the same correction with the G110 and #105 vs Dewalt 849 and #105.

[toyotaguy]

defect removal is much faster with the rotary, but finishing down with the PCXP is self assuring..

[gmblack3a]

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

defect removal is much faster with the rotary, but finishing down with the PCXP is self assuring..

With a rotary you are going to need 2 steps before you can get to a final polish, using the KBM with an orange or surbuf pad, you can follow with your final polish.