Check out this detail!

[carmine1149]

$15 per hour is inflated?

It seems to me that there are two sides to this coin. Fifteen dollars an hour is hardly overcharging someone for almost anything these days. However, I do see Corey's point, too. This car certainly looks 10 times better, if not more, than when it was started. It does seem to me, though, that for someone with such high tech equipment, who takes a lot of time and preparation to make up multiple charts and such, that he ought to follow through a bit more and remove the orange peel as close to 100% as humanly possible. Although $15 an hour doesn't seem like a killing for the amount of hours worked, all the guy knows who owns the car is that he laid out $1200 for a finished product, no matter how many hours it took. This does put at least a little different perspective on it, in my opinion. Maybe they need to charge more, find a way to finish the job faster, or perhaps a combination of the two, if possible. Ultimately, if the customer liked the way his car turned out, and I'm guessing he did judging by everyone else's overwhelming response, then who am I to criticize? Just my 2 cents worth...Carmine

[toyotaguy]

who said it was 80 hours?? I thought scotts "80 hour" statement was just a guestimation...true time???

I am pretty sure some people on here can get it done in much less than 80 hours (cough barry cough)...thats two weeks work time without going over the "8 hour day" cant make a living on that!

and I r-ewatched it looking at the edges, not completed all the way. But as also mentioned, to the everyday person on the everyday driver, its WAY BETTER than it was before! All that really matters is whether or not the client was happy in the end!

[jeteast99]

before the last 2 photos he said it was over 80 hours of work

[MuttGrunt]

I can't believe the talk of cutting corners and not doing things in-depth.

This isn't a show car. This was a detail done to a M3 that will be driven around. I didn't read anything in the post stating this was to be a show-car, nor did I read that perfection was the end goal. To state its not perfect is obvious and pretty unwarranted IMO.

The steps taken show care and consideration towards the car and paint, and the work was top-notch based off of the price and desired results. Don't come in bashing what this guy did, regardless of any other work you've done or seen. The write-up was very in-depth and informative and useful to all that read it, which I believe was a main purpose of the OP posting it here.

*Edited for clarity*

[tssdetailing]

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faints

[carmine1149]

Until you do higher quality work than this, please don't come in bashing what this guy did. The write-up was very in-depth and informative and useful to all that read it.
__________________

Marc Harris from
autoLavish of Michigan

WHOA-A-A-A-A!!!!! Geez, Marc, you gotta lighten up a bit. Surely you're not suggesting that if someone doesn't agree with your opinion, then they shouldn't be allowed on this forum. Granted, this was a car with so much peel on it, it looked like it was picked from a tree. And truthfully, when I first read the seemingly negative comments, I too wondered why anyone would want to be so critical about a job that looked great by comparison. But as I went back and went over the photos, it struck me that there was indeed another side to the story. When I looked at the 40th anniversary Corvette ZR-1 that was done by Rickrack and Rydawg, I couldn't help but draw some distinctions. Here was a 20k mile car that looked like it should have been driven straight to the junk yard when they got it, and when they were done with it, it was practically concours, so better work can always be done. And although I'm not a detailer by trade, I can do the quality work you speak of, having 28 years of experience in auto body and having been employed by Corvette Repair, Inc. of Valley Stream, N.Y., which is recognized as one of the premier Corvette restorers in existence. Part of the reason I was so successful with my paint work is because of my OCD attitude toward my finished product. But enough about me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that every car be treated like a six-figure show car, but at least consider the possibility that there is always room for improvement. I know that when I'd seen some other painters flatten out their work except for their edges, at certain angles, the difference would hit you like a wall. Again, just my opinion, for whatever it's worth...Carmine

[cptzippy]

Wow, I must be so 2005. I've never even considered lasers for my details Good looking results but didn't get the purpose for a lot of it.

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by carmine1149

Surely you're not suggesting that if someone doesn't agree with your opinion, then they shouldn't be allowed on this forum. Granted, this was a car with so much peel on it, it looked like it was picked from a tree. And truthfully, when I first read the seemingly negative comments, I too wondered why anyone would want to be so critical about a job that looked great by comparison. But as I went back and went over the photos, it struck me that there was indeed another side to the story. When I looked at the 40th anniversary Corvette ZR-1 that was done by Rickrack and Rydawg, I couldn't help but draw some distinctions. Here was a 20k mile car that looked like it should have been driven straight to the junk yard when they got it, and when they were done with it, it was practically concours, so better work can always be done. And although I'm not a detailer by trade, I can do the quality work you speak of, having 28 years of experience in auto body and having been employed by Corvette Repair, Inc. of Valley Stream, N.Y., which is recognized as one of the premier Corvette restorers in existence. Part of the reason I was so successful with my paint work is because of my OCD attitude toward my finished product. But enough about me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that every car be treated like a six-figure show car, but at least consider the possibility that there is always room for improvement. I know that when I'd seen some other painters flatten out their work except for their edges, at certain angles, the difference would hit you like a wall. Again, just my opinion, for whatever it's worth...Carmine

Carmine: Not at all bro! What I am saying is lets not take things out of control / context. How do you leave negative feedback / comments without taking into account the goal for the work done?

I'm not saying this is the best work I've ever seen, nor am I saying its not possible to do something similar. I agree that having expensive equipment / tools does not automatically make you an outstanding detailer, but I don't agree to bashing on someone's work simply because the guy had some good equipment and good ideas of how to use it to his advantage, but didn't take the work to a concours level

We should always find ways to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize the work we and others do. In no way am I saying everyone should look at that thread and think the guy is a detailing God, but I am saying that if you feel the work left something to be desired, then express so in a constructive manner. It's not like lasers are super expensive, and while the gloss-meter is pimp, using it at what looks like prior to the wash certainly would artificially inflate the after results.

[carmine1149]

Wow, I must be so 2005. I've never even considered lasers for my details Good looking results but didn't get the purpose for a lot of it.

I'm with you on this. While I admit to being a tech junkie, this was kind of lost on me. It's true that the setup was more than impressive to look at. In the end, a regular paint thickness guage would probably tell you the same thing. That is, is there enough paint on the car to do the work you're looking to do, or not? And please forgive me - I'm not saying this to be mean or to bash anyone, but when I saw the diagrams with all the marks on them, I couldn't help but think of the song, "Alice's Restaurant" by Arlo Guthrie where he explains about all of the 8x10 glossy photos with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the bottom of each page. Again, I'm not trying to be mean - it's just my sick sense of humor. I probably have too much time on my hands...Carmine

[carmine1149]

Carmine: Not at all bro! What I am saying is lets not take things out of control / context. How do you leave negative feedback / comments without taking into account the goal for the work done?

I'm not saying this is the best work I've ever seen, nor am I saying its not possible to do something similar. I agree that having expensive equipment / tools does not automatically make you an outstanding detailer, but I don't agree to bashing on someone's work simply because the guy had some good equipment and good ideas of how to use it to his advantage, but didn't take the work to a concours level

We should always find ways to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize the work we and others do. In no way am I saying everyone should look at that thread and think the guy is a detailing God, but I am saying that if you feel the work left something to be desired, then express so in a constructive manner. It's not like lasers are super expensive, and while the gloss-meter is pimp, using it at what looks like prior to the wash certainly would artificially inflate the after results.
__________________

Marc Harris from
autoLavish of Michigan

You're right, Marc. There are indeed ways to get your point across without coming off too harshly. Perhaps a little bit more diplomacy would have been nicer. And it's true that none of us were there when the original deal was struck. Their client may have, in fact, received a lot more finished product than even he was looking for. Overall, I think most people would have been thrilled with the results, but I guess there are certain people in this trade who are capable of finding the tiniest flaws and bringing them to light. Like I said, there was some merit in his argument, but like you said, you can do it with tact. Thanks for writing back, and thank you fellow Autopians, who allow us to express our opinions here...Carmine

[rcrobbins]

I didn't mean for my comments to be taken as they were. I only wanted for people to see beyond what was being praised. If no one ever pointed out these flaws, most would think of this job as perfection and the pinnacle of wet sanding. I merit the guy for what he did and his techniques to get this product. I just wanted to shine a light on what I saw in the eyes of a perfectionist painter. In relation for detailers, this would be like seeing a Ferrari beautifully polished/waxed on the exterior with the interior untouched. You guys would clearly see though what was done and question why the person didn't take the extra effort to make it a full 10/10 detail. Sorry if I stepped on toes here, I just thought you guys would take it as Carmine did. Instead the responses were negative with attitudes of "it is what it is for the money and use of the car" opposed to "man, now I see where a great job can be improved upon". Also, by no means, will I ever display my work for the purposes of proving myself over others. I hope this clears the air and if not, I'll just stay out of the way from here on out.

[Got_Leather]

Honestly for $1200, that's a great deal. I have done details before with no sanding that were $1200 +.